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Not long ago I overhauled a Buescher. It had all the original snap in resos. I punched the holes out bigger on some regular pads after removing the plastic resos. I shellaced the pad in and put the snap back on. I have another horn that someone removed the snaps and spuds. My opinion on the snap in resos, is that they are much smaller compared to normal resos. Thus if the purpose of having a resonator is for the sound enhancement then the undersized snap in resos don't really make sense. The next Buescher that I find overhauled without the snaps will be no big deal to me. It wont effect my decision on buying it. I won't remove them if they are there because of resale. I care a lot more about the norton springs being present than the snaps.Curious why its a big deal to some.
 

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Good question. Unless smaller resos have some obscure acoustic benefit, I'm guessing it's just a collector's fetish. There's an awful lot of emphasis placed on "authenticity" in the saxoverse.
 

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From this link Buescher Snap-Ons showing an early add for these you can see the term "resonator" is not even used. Apparently the dual purpose of the "snap-on" was to 1) hold the leather surface of the pad flat so it didn't protrude into the tonehole like previous "puffy" pads did, and 2) allow the player to replace his own pads "on the fly" by just snapping in new ones. The same DIY idea applied to the Norton springs as well.

In my thinking keeping a Buescher as original as possible has less to do with its resale value, that preserving the "personality" and "character" of a wonderful vintage instrument---something I feel is important. Remember there is only a limited number of these saxes still in existence. I know there are some players who "pimp out" their vintage Conn 10M's with custom oversize resos and play extremely bright mouthpieces in order to get a "modern sound", but I prefer my Conn 10M to sound like a 10M. You can buy lots of modern saxophones built with that newer concept of tone in mind. Trying to turn one into something it is not has never made much sense to me.
 

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Of all the Bueschers I've owned and had overhauled, they were all before Sax On The Web existed. Thus, I didn't realize that keeping the snaps was a thing. The repairmen I used then all advised against trying to maintain those snaps so I agreed to have them removed as part of the overhaul-process. And, my Bueschers played great after their respective overhauls. Please forgive me . . . DAVE
 

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Of all the Bueschers I've owned and had overhauled, they were all before Sax On The Web existed. Thus, I didn't realize that keeping the snaps was a thing. The repairmen I used then all advised against trying to maintain those snaps so I agreed to have them removed as part of the overhaul-process. And, my Bueschers played great after their respective overhauls. Please forgive me . . . DAVE
Agreed, mine were all removed as well. I have them all in a little baggy in a drawer, so if I were to someday sell the horn, the new owner can fuss with them to their heart's content!
 

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The Buescher snaps were not intended to change the sound, as has been mentioned before. However, players noticed that the snaps made the sound a little brighter, at a time when some playing styles considered that to be an advantage. Conn followed with the reso-pad to achieve the same result. Resonators on Conn reso-pads are almost exactly the same diameter as Buescher snaps. When Selmer and others began to use metal resonators, they increased the diameters a bit more.
Some players simply like the slightly darker sound of Buescher snaps and Conn reso-pads. For some musical styles, it is more appropriate, and Buescher snaps are a good choice.
If the saxophone is rare or a collector's item like a straight alto or tipped bell soprano, or if the sax is in exceedingly good original condition, it is important to preserve its originality, in my opinion, and keep the snaps.
So snaps or no snaps depends on the horn, its condition, and the musical environment in which it will be used. In the end, however, the correct choice is whatever the owner wants.
 

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Well, I like to use the instrument in more or less the condition that its designer intended, at least acoustically. That means boosters of similar size to original. I think that a lot of "bad intonation" or "ugly tone" or "stuffy" horns would get suddenly better if people used a setup and mouthpiece type for which the instrument was designed.

The main problem with the snaps is that once one's lost or broken it's difficult to replace it. And of course since Bueschers had (at least in the crowd I ran with) the very worst (unjustifiably) reputation during the years of vintage-saxophone-hate of the 1950s through early 1980s, they're very likely to have been subjected to mutilations (like grinding out the stubs for the snaps) during that time.

I mean, if you think that a silver plated True Tone Buescher is a crappy horn only good for a ninth grader to march with in the pouring rain, you don't want to pay for the technician to punch special holes in the pads when it gets new pads; no, you tell him to do it the cheapest possible way, and because the technician shares that opinion of the quality of the instrument, he unsolders or grinds out the stubs so he can use the cheapest possible pads on this service and any subsequent ones. Same thing with the phenomenon of sanding off all the silver plating so the horn looks oohh shiny new brass. Or selling the King Super 20 alto and using the proceeds to buy two Mexi-Conn altos (yes, I saw this done). Or taking all the little set screws out of a Conn 10M tenor and just setting the pivot screws any old way with no threadlocker, no nothin', because it's an old Conn that's not any good anyway so who cares if after an hour or so of playing all adjustment is lost as the pivot screws back out. (Happened to me)
 

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I think they have a more muffled but velvety sound. I have a Gold Plate C in Museum condition I overhauled with white roos and original resos it has a sound of its own!
 

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I think they have a more muffled but velvety sound. I have a Gold Plate C in Museum condition I overhauled with white roos and original resos it has a sound of its own!
I haven't heard many C-mels that were anything but "more muffled", but I attribute most of that to their design and mouthpiece. Of the Big B and TH&C tenors with Snap-Ins that I've played, each one of them had a sound that could fill the room to overflowing. No muffled sound.
 

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I think they have a more muffled but velvety sound. I have a Gold Plate C in Museum condition I overhauled with white roos and original resos it has a sound of its own!
I wouldn't really call it more muffled, I repadded a horn with no resos and the "velvety" sound pretty much hits the nail on the head. And if muffled means you can play down to whisper and still get a good sound, then I'd agree with that, too. And. as turf3 said, the setup is really important, and I'd go further to say that you need to adjust your playing to do justice to the horn, because it is not a tenor, nor an alto but something designed more for chamber music. It may take a few hours, or days or even weeks to find the sweet spot. And yes, keep the snaps if possible at all.
 

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I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make to replace the snap-in 'resos;' probably not much at all if they were replaced by resos of the same size & shape. But if it's true that larger resos would give the horn a brighter sound, then I'd rather keep the snap-ins, or resos of similar size/shape as the snap-ins, on my Buescher Aristocrat tenors. Both of those horns (a series one and a 156) are relatively bright when pushed, brighter than my MKVI, so they don't need anything to boost that brightness.
 

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Not long ago I overhauled a Buescher. It had all the original snap in resos. I punched the holes out bigger on some regular pads after removing the plastic resos. I shellaced the pad in and put the snap back on. I have another horn that someone removed the snaps and spuds. My opinion on the snap in resos, is that they are much smaller compared to normal resos. Thus if the purpose of having a resonator is for the sound enhancement then the undersized snap in resos don't really make sense. The next Buescher that I find overhauled without the snaps will be no big deal to me. It wont effect my decision on buying it. I won't remove them if they are there because of resale. I care a lot more about the norton springs being present than the snaps.Curious why its a big deal to some.
A really valid question.

This is WHY, for a couple of generations, techs grinded out the nibs. It wasn't until the internet that the snap-ins (a questionable system to begin with) suddenly became "important".

Personally I do not believe maintaining the snap ins maintains the 'personality' of the horn, which granted is an odd thing for me to say since I am generally into these sorta warm-'n-fuzzy old-horn-mojo things.
But in this case, I see no benefit whatsoever to the performance of the instrument.
It is VERY questionable to claim that a Boosh with snap ins, when put up vs. a Boosh with no snaps but conventional resonator pads installed.....has any advantage whatsoever.

As the mfr intended, in this instance, for me is sorta meh. Why ? Because it wasn't a great system.
It was cool, tho.
But in playing performance it adds no benefit and some might argue with some validity it is actually a detriment.

I do NOT think it is necessarily FAIR to characterize a tech who has removed the system as a hack, or argue that they simply did it to make it easier on themselves. I think, on the contrary, many did it because they felt it just wasn't a great system and, like me, felt it didn't do the horn any favors as a musical instrument.

Mind you - as a seller, I will NOT remove the snap system if it is intact, I will just install new pads with the system there.
It is, IMHO, an inferior way of installing pads. I believe a better result is achieved by conventional installation with conventional pads.
But I will not grind the nibs out because it'd hurt the $ which goes into my pocket.

However, if any owner asked my opinion, I'd tell 'em "if resale value isn't super-important to you, let your tech remove 'em".

Or if I was asked "I have a line on this Boosh and I really LIKE, and I like the price- it but the snaps are gone...should I buy it...or pass ?"...I'd say "go for it".

Caveat being what Saxtek mentioned - one in really pristine shape or a really rare/uncommon model...would tilt that decision a bit towards keeping 'em.

But that sorta horn doesn't describe 95% of Bueschers...

So, IMHO, the reason to 'care' about 'em, is solely for market value of the horn.


Oh, if one makes an argument that there's an acoustical reason for the system to remain since the size of the reso/snaps was so unique...NOT an un-interesting argument, mind you....I'd probably -

1) (again) challenge them to illustrate the sonic difference between a horn outfitted with bona-fide reso snaps and a horn outfitted with 'nowaday' resos

2) point out if they really felt it was important to adhere to that, they could have their new conventional pads outfitted with slightly undersize new resos...any tech could do that, and many pad suppliers could as well....
 

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No one has yet mentioned the "cosmetics" of the snap-on resos that have been cleaned and polished and used with white roo pads on a silver plated saxophone. The white art eraser is used to clean any smudges that get on the pad while working with the keys. I have come up with a way to "spin" the resos in my bench motor to quickly clean and polish them with metal polish on a paper towel. If the original plating is worn through they are nickel plated to restore the finish. I have gotten good results by installing and seating the roo pads on a thin layer of shellac first without the snap on, and then "tweaking" it a bit if adding the reso causes any changes.

Buescher resos 001.JPG
 

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No one has yet mentioned the "cosmetics" of the snap-on resos that have been cleaned and polished and used with white roo pads on a silver plated saxophone. The white art eraser is used to clean any smudges that get on the pad while working with the keys. I have come up with a way to "spin" the resos in my bench motor to quickly clean and polish them with metal polish on a paper towel. If the original plating is worn through they are nickel plated to restore the finish. I have gotten good results by installing and seating the roo pads on a thin layer of shellac first without the snap on, and then "tweaking" it a bit if adding the reso causes any changes.

View attachment 259046
You .....just LUB that 'no-rivet-in-'da-middle' look, is all....:TGNCHK:
 

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I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make to replace the snap-in 'resos;' probably not much at all if they were replaced by resos of the same size & shape. But if it's true that larger resos would give the horn a brighter sound, then I'd rather keep the snap-ins, or resos of similar size/shape as the snap-ins, on my Buescher Aristocrat tenors. Both of those horns (a series one and a 156) are relatively bright when pushed, brighter than my MKVI, so they don't need anything to boost that brightness.
+2.3 My Bueschers lacked nothing for volume and projection - both were sporting original Snap-Ins. Brightness, if needed, is easy tweaked with mouthpiece/reed setup and airstream.
 

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I know this is going to **** off all the BuescherBros, but I hate the snap in pads and, I think they are one of the main factors of why Buescher eventually failed as a saxophone manufacturer.

Also the original Conn reso pads with the leather stretched over that ring like a drum head and the small rivet resos also don't seat well and are a weak link, although they do last a long time, you will never get the sort of performance you get from a standard high quality firm pad properly installed on a leveled tone hole with either plastic or metal resonators a solid bead of shellac in the cup.

The idea that resos will destroy the original character of the sax is puritanical and for people obsessed with originality, not performance. Properly installed resonators only make a saxophone better, kind of like allowing it to fulfill its potential as an saxophone.

My tech does what to OP did with shellacking the snaps in, which helps a lot and they may do fine, but overall they are simply inferior to a well installed standard pad with shellac ala Selmer, King, Martin, Buffet, Keilwerth etc.

Peace!
 

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My tech does what to OP did with shellacking the snaps in, which helps a lot and they may do fine, but overall they are simply inferior to a well installed standard pad with shellac ala Selmer, King, Martin, Buffet, Keilwerth etc.

Peace!
There is nothing to prevent a tech from removing the spuds and installing whatever pad/reso you prefer. Nothing but a bunch o' mumbling, that is.
 

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My tech does what to OP did with shellacking the snaps in, which helps a lot and they may do fine, but overall they are simply inferior to a well installed standard pad with shellac ala Selmer, King, Martin, Buffet, Keilwerth etc.

Peace!
In my experience whether a good quality pad installed properly (with shellac) over a level tonehole has a "snap on reso" attached to the key cup, or a traditional reso attached to the pad makes no difference in the quality of the pad or the installaction. There is no difference acoustically either if the resos are close to the same sizes.
 
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