[amoram]

Well I was wondering. Why is it that, if you use a different (better) neck, the tuning of your sax improves? Can anyone explain?:? I've read the ref54 vs yani992 review by saxaholic and he said the ref improves much with a barone neck. So now I'm searching to buy one all over the web. I've contacted him, but he only accepts paypal and western union which is kind of impossible to use for me. So my main question is, how it works. And if anyone has suggestions about where to get a better neck, your comments is also welcome!
thanks!

 

[gary]

amoram, I don't doubt that necks can make a difference (not always an improvement though) or that they can make a difference one seeks, but what is the problem with your present horn? Since last fall, I've played a number of Selmers and they all played very well. Some intonation idiosyncrasies here and there, but nothing more that one often finds on any number of horns. I don't know how experienced you are so please don't take this personally, but are you sure you are having problems that point directly to the neck?

 

[mike_s]

i think a lot of the necks are not neccessarily better but they are different. people hear something differerent and they think my god this is better.

 

[awholley]

I have also started a search for a Barone neck (and have an email in to Phil about availability) after reading the Saxoholic review.

My Ref 54 alto had the low C warble so bad I made a huge stink with the seller and they contacted Selmer about a replacement. My tech sent convinced me the problem was likely leaks and need for a setup, so I went down that road, but to no avail. However, if I stick a YAS-23 neck (my son's) or a Buescher Aristocrat neck on there, the problem goes away.
I have since been able to adjust my airstream to be able to control the problem 97% of the time, but it seems likely that, were the Ref 54 neck better-designed, I wouldn't have to worry about it. I have never had this problem on any other horn, vintage or modern, unless there was a huge leak.

Amoram, there is a used copper Barone neck at www.saxquest.com. You are welcome to beat me to it. I am waiting to hear from Phil before I decide what I am going to do.

Alan

 

[milandro]

we all look for some intangible factor, the misterious je ne sais quoi. New horns, Vintage Horns,the mouthpieces (new,vintage, ebonite, metal, stock, custom....refaced pieces), the reeds, the neck (from another brand, from another horn, custom, silver, brass, copper, wood), the neck inserts, the horn, lacquer, de-laquer (or not), silver, gold plate, brass, copper.......some put a plug in perfectly functioning high F# holes.....

If it works for you and you do it without damaging anything else than your property or your bank account....why not?

There is a whole world of small business going round all this. Most people make honest livings providing what you think it is necessary. Fetish or not, you have to decide for yourself.....

 

[Dr G]

FWIW, I had two extra necks for my Ref 36 (as well as the original) - a Selmer and a Gloger. After the honeymoon period lapsed, I sold them both. Yes, they were both different but so is every mouthpiece and reed.

So what is it, amoram, that fuels your compulsion for a new neck? Does it fit properly? A brand new, aftermarket neck that doesn't fit well will not be the end of your search for sonic nirvana either.

 

[mike_s]

if your getting a low c warble, i would try dropping a wine cork down your bell when you play.

 

[awholley]

I did, and it does help some. I am looking for an acoustically-correct answer at this point -in other words treating the problem rather than just the symptom. I do realize however, that it remains to be seen whether or not the Barone neck is the right match, though Jason DuMars and Saxoholic seem to have had very positive experiences with Barone necks on Ref 54 altos, which is promising.

 

[CountSpatula]

It seemed like on my reference that if I used my normal embouchure (loose) I had that low C warble (mouthpiece cap in the bell worked) but when I tightened it a bit to produce a concert A mouthpiece alone and used the same embouchure on the C it never happened...
But then again the one mouthpiece it never happened on no matter what embochure was my RPC 90R haha.

 

[ralph lh]

Barone neck

So, if you guys are looking for a Barone neck, why haven't you looked in the right forum - I've got one posted for sale... it is a tenor, though.

 

[bruce bailey]

Notice if the warble is gone if you push way in or pull way out. I find that this is often caused by the mismatch of the mouthpiece to the end of the neck. Try different mouthpieces too. If pushing in cures it, try pulling out at the neck to body to lower the pitch. I don't think there is a real cure for a "gurggler". A longer or shorter neck may help. Also the inner diameter of the neck at the mouthpiece end may have an effect.

 

[awholley]

So, if you guys are looking for a Barone neck, why haven't you looked in the right forum - I've got one posted for sale... it is a tenor, though.

Did I miss a Barone alto neck for sale with the search button? Please point the way!

 

[danarsenault]

Neck geometry, like all engineering, is a tradeoff. In this case, the addition of poor knowledge about what result a design change has also always been a factor. I have three necks for my Ref 54 alto. The stock neck, which had to be corrected by my tech for slightly incorrect position of the ring that determines the tenon length, plays the way I like best, even with the intonation issues and remaining low C burble. One other neck i have is a Taiwanese prototype that looks like the typical Taiwanese Selmer clone neck, but has Super 20 clone geometry. Much brighter and less resistant, neither of which is good to me. I have alse played a Serie III neck, which helped with the burble but sounded like a Serie III.

The burble has always been worst for me with the stock neck and Meyer 5M Richie Cole. Least burble occurs with C* and Serie III neck (can't make it burble). The horn needs to be very tight to not burble, and you will need to help it.

 

[gary]

I hate to say it, but maybe as a caution to potential Ref 54 alto buyers I will. I tried out several Refs last October and December and had no gurgle problems with any of them. My conclusion, then, is to try a bunch and do not buy one that has a gurgle in the hopes that you can adjust to it at some future date. Get one without a gurgle to start with. They are out there.

BTW amoram, I still would like to know what you are not getting out of your sax with the standard neck that you think you will find in another. I notice you've got an impressive list of designer equipment but that doesn't tell me how much experience you have playing. Are you sure you just don't need more time in the woodshed getting used to your horn?

 

[awholley]

Are you sure you just don't need more time in the woodshed getting used to your horn?

This is definitely worthwhile in relation to the low C warble. As noted above, I can pretty much control it without issue now. I spent about 4 hours playing low C's one day until the correct feel/voicing got internalized. (Coincidentally, the family seemed to develop a sudden need to go out to the mall after about the first 45 minutes....)

 

[Steve P]

Well, an acoustically correct solution would involve a new bow on the instrument. The warble on low notes is caused by the bow being too large. This is why a wine cork will help; it essentially makes that section of the tube smaller.

Steve P

 

[mike_s]

you could also add a baffle to the bow.

 

[tjontheroad]

I have two Gloger necks. One for my SDA alto and the other for my SC-992. Both are silver. Since I've had them, I've not ever gone back to the original necks. For both horns, the sound has more character and the response is improved throughout. They're keepers along with the horns I use them with.

Was it worth the cost? Initially, I thought they came at maybe too high in price. As I look at it over time, I figure the investment becomes more and more worth it the longer I keep them. These necks make both horns even better to play and enjoy.

So when I look at it that way, the neck can make a great sax even more fun. That's cheaper than buying whole other sax in the same pursuit.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[gary]

I just love threads like this. Thank goodness few of us are doctors or our patients would be dead. Friends, amoram has said nothing about a gurgle. The only thing he's referred to up to now is intonation. :roll:

 

[BYOB]

A new neck?

Like the others have asked, what exactly is wrong with your current one?

I mean, if there's nothing wrong, don't buy into that marketing hype. You know, this necks sounds like that, that neck sounds like this, that mouthpiece goes well with this neck and sounds like that.