[raindog]

It's painful but I'm forcing myself to record and listen myself in order to improve.

What I dislike the most about my sound, a consistent problem, is related to timing, or attack/envelope of the notes, but I can't quite specify further, and not sure what kind of practice could be the best remedy.

I feel I'm just generally sloppy with regards to timing, or behind the rhythm, and my notes lack definition. When playing, I feel almost like I am slapping the notes out, but when listening, the clear attack I thought and felt I was doing, just isn't there. There is definitely work to be done with my articulation, but not sure exactly what. Something to do with air, or something I'm doing, or not doing, with my tongue?

It could also be that I'm scooping a little for especially low notes which contribute to the sloppy time feel, but the scooping isn't nearly as bad as it was before.

Here's me noodling on a random song, which should highlight the problems. This is bari, and it's quite new instument for me, but it's the same problem with tenor, and it's awful to listen at times. So sorry in advance... Recorded with just a cell phone on a table, so quality is what it is.

https://soundcloud.com/rauniorooroo%2Fnoodles-1
Tonewise I'm somewhat happy with most of this, there is a decent amount of "grit" which is somewhat challenging to achieve in a low volume. I make some mistakes, and controlling the volume of especially low notes and bigger intervals is a challenge, but that doesn't worry me. It's the sloppy feel in timing, and "attack" or "envelope" of notes, which needs serious attention in my mind.

It would be helpful to have some ears listen to this and maybe suggest what/how to practice.

 

[lostcircuits]

The link doesn't work

 

[raindog]

The link doesn't work

Should be fixed now, thanks.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I was expecting something awful! I'm disappointed

I'd say you articulation is not bad at all, nor is the timing. Nothing that some long note/tonguing exercise with a slow metrnome won't sort out.

My main critique might be sounds like air support is a little weak, with a couple of very mild intonational issues.

It is of course hard to hear the timing on that track as there is no really obvious "beat" to compare. maybe you are being too hard on yourself.

 

[turf3]

Well the piece is in an "out of time/rubato" feel anyway, so I'm not really sure what you mean about "timing not accurate enough".

I think there are improvements to be found in attacks, too much scooping into notes. I'd work on maintaining a feeling of a constant air stream that's interrupted by the tongue rather than a feeling of re-starting the air stream each time. Make scoops, when they exist, dramatic and intentional.

 

[raindog]

I was expecting something awful! I'm disappointed

I'd say you articulation is not bad at all, nor is the timing. Nothing that some long note/tonguing exercise with a slow metrnome won't sort out.

My main critique might be sounds like air support is a little weak, with a couple of very mild intonational issues.

It is of course hard to hear the timing on that track as there is no really obvious "beat" to compare. maybe you are being too hard on yourself.

Thank you for the supportive words. I'm a bit shy about putting sounds to the public for all to hear and also sometimes hard for myself, so some kind words help

It is interesting that you suggest air support and intonation as more important issues than timing/articulation, didn't expect that. But exactly the kind of input that is valuable.

 

[raindog]

I'd work on maintaining a feeling of a constant air stream that's interrupted by the tongue rather than a feeling of re-starting the air stream each time.

This is very much what I think I'm having problems with. To have clearly defined notes, but not "slappy", "scoopy", or "lazy" sounding unless intentional. Trying to maintain a constant airstream/pressure and cutting it with tongue certainly feels like it could improve things.

Feeling the rhythm of a song is maybe a separate issue, and I hope that will improve naturally, once notes come out effortlessy with a nice attack, perhaps. A clearly defined, fast-attack note should be easier to land exactly on beat, whatever that beat is.

 

[1saxman]

Try recording playing along to a track with a definite and steady beat. That will tell you a lot more than this strange 'drone' or whatever it is you tried to play to.

 

[saxoclese]

It is not clear to me what "style" you are trying to achieve. Generally speaking apart from accents a "du" articulation is more commonly used in jazz than "tah". Of course it comes down to a personal preference depending upon the tune you are playing.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Thank you for the supportive words. I'm a bit shy about putting sounds to the public for all to hear and also sometimes hard for myself, so some kind words help

Do it!

You are good enough. The words weren't necessarily kind, they were honest.

Give us some more.

 

[raindog]

https://soundcloud.com/rauniorooroo%2Fnoodles2
Here's something with more defined background track rhythm from a few days back. It's was quite a fast song for me, so I had no time to concentrate on tone or anything, just tried to keep up with the beat and get all low notes out cleanly. Maybe it helps to highlight what I think are my rhythm or articulation problems. (consider this a technical drill, so if the previous clip has some elements I'm happy with, this is not very good sounding in any way)

 

[raindog]

Well the piece is in an "out of time/rubato" feel anyway, so I'm not really sure what you mean about "timing not accurate enough".

I think there are improvements to be found in attacks, too much scooping into notes. I'd work on maintaining a feeling of a constant air stream that's interrupted by the tongue rather than a feeling of re-starting the air stream each time. Make scoops, when they exist, dramatic and intentional.

I've been playing on and off today, trying to have a "constant" airstream starting and stopping notes a bit differently, and can confirm hints, or whiffs of good results can be heard. Without thinking I steer towards starting notes with airstream only, or in the other extreme, some kind of combination of scoop and slap tongue. Feels like this is a good direction in search of a better sound.

 

[swperry1]

Sure, your time isn’t perfect, but it’s not terrible. Your mixing of tracks on the other hand...
What was that you were playing to? Sounded like a cool tune and reminded me of Galactic but I could barely hear it.
Practicing with a metronome and being modest, like 60 bpm forever...double or triple time your flow if you want to play faster lines. Also, sing what you’re playing while you’re playing it and it should help clean up time and intonation issues. As mentioned, air support.

 

[swperry1]

Sure, your time isn’t perfect, but it’s not terrible. Your mixing of tracks on the other hand...
What was that you were playing to? Sounded like a cool tune and reminded me of Galactic but I could barely hear it.
Practicing with a metronome and being modest, like 60 bpm forever...double or triple time your flow if you want to play faster lines. Also, sing what you’re playing while you’re playing it and it should help clean up time and intonation issues. As mentioned, air support.

 

[raindog]

Sure, your time isn't perfect, but it's not terrible. Your mixing of tracks on the other hand...
What was that you were playing to? Sounded like a cool tune and reminded me of Galactic but I could barely hear it.
Practicing with a metronome and being modest, like 60 bpm forever...double or triple time your flow if you want to play faster lines. Also, sing what you're playing while you're playing it and it should help clean up time and intonation issues. As mentioned, air support.

Here's the first song, "Sandunga - La Vida Tropical" by "Nine Rain" album "Que Viva Mexico! A Soundtrack for the Film by Sergei Eisenstein"

Also on spotify.

The other song is "Pop that pussy", by "Rebirth Brass Band". Mixed feelings about that song, lol.

I do have two Galactic songs on my "songs to play sax with" -Spotify playlist, some nice pieces. Never know what comes up when hitting shuffle play on that, it's grown to almost 1600 songs, haha.

Comments about air support duly noted. I am able to put more air through the horn, but this setup is so free blowing and requires so little air, I'm slipping.. Big air always does good things, when I remember to use it!

 

[turf3]

If I were going to work on playing rhythmically, I'd play along with tracks that are rhythmic.

Do you have any James Brown records?

 

[lostcircuits]

Sure, your time isn't perfect, but it's not terrible. Your mixing of tracks on the other hand...
What was that you were playing to? Sounded like a cool tune and reminded me of Galactic but I could barely hear it.
Practicing with a metronome and being modest, like 60 bpm forever...double or triple time your flow if you want to play faster lines. Also, sing what you're playing while you're playing it and it should help clean up time and intonation issues. As mentioned, air support.

Aww... Sorry, that was funny. And the cure is: Practice and practice and if you have a YouTube track, play it at 1.25 speed until you have it clean and then go back to the original speed and you'll be waiting for every single note, which makes it easy to hit the timing right. And listen to your own recordings until the spots that aren't on really hurt your feelings and then you can start really working on those. And take a few days of break between the tunes, that'll change your perception of "oh, that was cool" to OMG what was I thinking but it also gets you a feeling for what parts were good and you can use those as references for your progress.

 

[adamk]

Different notes speak differently.
Use a metronome and play one note over and over until you are right on.
Do this in different registers, then play scales and intervals.
Finally play melodies to find out what combinations of notes throw you off.
Take those phrases and play until smooth.
Last loose the metronome, put it all together and groove.

 

[turf3]

Try this - in the "wailing interval". or the shout choruses as they ride it out.

Now THAT'S rhythm. Not that weird thing you had in your second sound file.

 

[JayeLID]

It is of course hard to hear the timing on that track as there is no really obvious "beat" to compare. maybe you are being too hard on yourself.

Well the piece is in an "out of time/rubato" feel anyway, so I'm not really sure what you mean about "timing not accurate enough".

This was my first reaction...it isn't exactly like the backing track is solidly, concretely metronomic (it might be, but it sure isn't easy to hear if it is...)

Try recording playing along to a track with a definite and steady beat.

If I were going to work on playing rhythmically, I'd play along with tracks that are rhythmic.

I think THIS ^ is the ticket.

Yup, second backing track was not much better, really...both backing tracks sorta obfuscate a clear, clean tempo.

Use backing tracks where the time is really, really crisp and obvious to the ear.

It DOES seem you MAY be jumping to backing tracks when more metronome work (as others have suggested) may be a better route.

BUT I think backing tracks would work fine as long as the tempo of those tracks is very well articulated...and the tempo stays under 90 bpm or so. Then I think you would be using an aid which is much more manageable.