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Discussion Starter #1
One of my adult students told me during his lesson that he bought an Otto Link STM for a very good price (must be used) from a well-known music shop often mentioned on SOTW. This shop sometimes puts things on Ebay, so I presume it was from there, as he's waiting for it to arrive. Anyway, I ask him the lay, he says 8. He's playing on a Tone Edge at the moment, a 5 lay. I am irritated that the dealer didn't advise him and that he didn't ask me (I had talked about suitable lays etc. in the past). He's gonna end up biting to get a sound! I dunno... :?
 

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does the shop have a refund service?
if not he could always 'chuck it in the bay' to get the money for a mouthpiece with a better lay.
perhaps he will only learn from his mistakes
 

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Adult students are always difficult...especially if you're younger than they are...
 

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Too bad he can't handle the 8 or 8* facing, as Otto Link STMs really start to open up and shine around those facing sizes in my opinion. Assuming this is a Tenor Link.

Surely he can trade for a more suitable mouthpiece with someone on SOTW.
 

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benjamin1979 said:
erogant kids......
Don't you mean "ego-rant" kids? OOh, I'm ROCKIN this morning!:D Hi everyone!!
 

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Saxplayer67 said:
One of my adult students told me during his lesson that he bought an Otto Link STM for a very good price (must be used) from a well-known music shop often mentioned on SOTW. This shop sometimes puts things on Ebay, so I presume it was from there, as he's waiting for it to arrive. Anyway, I ask him the lay, he says 8. He's playing on a Tone Edge at the moment, a 5 lay. I am irritated that the dealer didn't advise him and that he didn't ask me (I had talked about suitable lays etc. in the past). He's gonna end up biting to get a sound! I dunno... :?
Give the guy a chance! you haven't heard him play it yet, and yet you are already critical. His money, His decision.

I went from a .090 Beechler Bellite to a .130+ Link STM (one of EZs masterpieces) on Tenor, and after a little work on my part to get used to it and find the right (SOFT) reed I'm ecstatic with the result, its a monster sound. It was not all that hard to do to be honest.

You might want to ask him what sort of sound he is hoping to achieve with it and help him head in that direction too, he obviously wanted something different to what he was getting or else his head would not have been turned by this new piece. Maybe he wanted a different sound. Maybe it was too good a deal to turn down. Maybe he just wanted to spend some discretionary income on his hobby (GAS attacks happen!)
 

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Saxplayer67 said:
It's just annoying that I try to pass on my knowledge and own experiences to my students and they don't heed important stuff like mouthpiece lays!
Unfortunately "telling" and "teaching" are not always the same thing.

Maybe the student's experience with an unsuitable mouthpiece will help "teach" him what you were trying to "tell" him. I would recommend keeping your mouth shut and let him struggle with it for a while until he gives you an opening like "why am I having trouble controlling the sound"? You can then say things that he will probably listen to, because he is now "teachable" on the subject of why mouthpieces need to be suitable for the level of experience of the player.

On the off chance that the more open mouthpiece works for him, your silence will have kept your foot out of your mouth and will indicate that you have learned something too.
 

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Canadiain said:
Give the guy a chance! you haven't heard him play it yet, and yet you are already critical. His money, His decision.

I went from a .090 Beechler Bellite to a .130+ Link STM (one of EZs masterpieces) on Tenor, and after a little work on my part to get used to it and find the right reed Im ecstatic with the result, its a monster sound. It was not all that hard to do to be honest.
I would echo this too. I went from a Selmer C* to a Lamberson J7 early on knowing that I probably wouldn't be able to handle the J7 right away, but I bought it anyway since the deal was pretty good. Now about a year and half later the J7 is too closed for me and I feel the just right piece is a J8.
 

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jbtsax said:
Unfortunately "telling" and "teaching" are not always the same thing.

Maybe the student's experience with an unsuitable mouthpiece will help "teach" him what you were trying to "tell" him.
As is often the case I think jbtsax has hit the nail on the head here. Sometimes as an adult learner it's actually difficult to know what you don't know, whereas kids already know they don't know. A few months back I was absolutely certain that my 7* and 8 tip Link style mouthpieces were exactly what I needed to get the sound I wanted. As an adult I'd rationalised this based on the evidence that all the great sax players whose tone I wanted to emulate played that sort of setup. Telling me I was wrong wouldn't have made any difference, but when my teacher said "just try this" and gave me a student mouthpiece to try I immediately realised what he meant about control, about dynamics, about expression and about tone - where I'd been fighting the damned thing suddenly it was as easy as pie to get the notes out! This was actually a potentially quite humiliating thing to admit, but my teacher was such a nice and inoffensive guy that he handled it in such a way as to make me feel good about it rather than stupid.

I have taught adults (in IT and in learning systems) for appraoching 20 years and one thing I can state for certain is that good teachers earn their money many times over. It's not what you know, it's how well you intuit what the student/s understanding is and needs are and then what you do to help them move forwards. I miss teaching! :)
 

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RootyTootoot said:
Don't you mean "ego-rant" kids? OOh, I'm ROCKIN this morning!:D Hi everyone!!
Could be "error-gant".
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Not once have I TOLD him what to do, I have ADVISED him. The alto piece has now arrived and he can get a few odd notes out but it is a great effort, as predicted, since I have been teaching him for a couple of years now, I can divine what may help or hinder him, as any tutor could. It didn't come with a lig, so I ADVISED him of what to get. I SUGGESTED he keep working with the piece (Otto STM 8*) but if he just keeps struggling, then to go back to his old piece (an Otto Link HR 5), especially if he's screwing his embouchure and knackering his lip to get a sound.

But I don't have to explain myself to those calling my judgement into question. I wish I'd never posted the sodding thread in the first place.
 

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Saxplayer67 said:
But I don't have to explain myself to those calling my judgement into question. I wish I'd never posted the sodding thread in the first place.
Steady there SP67, so far as I can see people are only answering the question you asked - "Why do they not listen?" - in a spirit of support and helpfulness. You get huffy on SOTW far too easily, relax we're all just sax players trying to help each other, remember that communication on a web forum isn't the same as face-to-face, no one's having a go at you so chill :)
 
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