Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2013-2016
It's pretty unbelievable, but I've noticed that Keilwerths (and especially Buffet Expressions and SX-90 alto) seem to have poor resale value. Why? They're great horns...
I think you got hit extra hard because most folks look for the nickel plated Keilwerths. The plain lacquer ones are great players. I prefer my plain lacquer tenor over any plated JK I've played.heath said:I finally did end up selling mine on Ebay yesterday.
A tenor in mint condition. SX90 gold lacquer. 3 months old.
Purchased new $2495 from kessler, Sold on ebay and after paypal and ebay fees and some additional shipping cost I netted about $1500....that's a loss of $1000 on a horn without a scratch.
All the JK's from the soprano to the tenors have horrible resale value. The Baris seem to do ok, but I'll tell you this I'll never buy another JK. I sold my JK soprano recently at more than a $1000 loss as well on ebay. They are great horns, but they aren't Selmers and that's all I own now and all I'll ever own from here on out.
If it ain't a selmer it's not worth diddly.
Dude I was trying and trying to sell the thing. I posted it on Ebay twice the second time for a 10 day period. It just sat and sat and sat and sat. I asked for a reasonable amount at first and was getting no where. Honestly you can't hardly give a JK away. I only post BIN's on ebay because I prefer not to screw around anymore with deadbeat bidders that bid too high and then try to get out of the deal when the auction has ended.JCBigler said:Okay, first I have to ask, "why would you want to sell a Keilwerth in the first place?"
And second, you can set a minimum bid amount on eBay. If you didn't get as much as you wanted, then it's your fault. You don't have to take just any bid that comes in. That's what the reserve price is all about.
Actually there's probably more to it than that. Ever notice how fast the Selmers and Yanagisawas sell. It's the faster more focused response of the smaller bore horns that makes them drive like a italian sports car. JK has a big bore/bow horn and the ergos need to be brought together.kaplac said:Just because keilwerths aren't exactly a home name.
Its kind of a saxophonist's best kept secret type of thing. The only problem is that it doesn't have a very big rep. Kinda like the Martin horns.
You are right in one respect. Many players particularly girls( not being sexist) and guys,especially those coming over from alto, don't have the air and breath support for a large bore horn. I play with a gal who wanted to play tenor and tried to switch from a Yamaha to an SX90 and gave up after a year and bought a Series III.heath said:Actually there's probably more to it than that. Ever notice how fast the Selmers and Yanagisawas sell. It's the faster more focused response of the smaller bore horns that makes them drive like a italian sports car. JK has a big bore/bow horn and the ergos need to be brought together.
The bottom line for me was I'm playing my VI everyday and the JK just couldn't compare to the buzz, faster response and dark lush sound of this horn. I thought the JK was a great horn, but after playing it for hours and then switching back to the VI, there was no comparison. People play these selmers for a reason. There's more to it than just the name or else about 99.9% of pros wouldn't be playing Selmers and if their not gigging with them then they pull them out when no one is looking in the studio.
The only one i can think of, who passed away a while ago was Grover Washington. he always posed with his Couf/JK tenor or soprano. I think he played a Selmer BA alto and i rarely saw a pic of him with that.heath said:The only problem is name dropping doesn't work for the JK. There's a limited number of pros that rep for JK and more often then not you see them live and in pictures holding a Selmer...usually a VI. Heck even Ernie Watts plays a VI and he's supposed to rep JK. Same thing with Liebman....VI when no one's looking.
i think those would definitely help. I love the engraving on my Couf (different from the current JK), though the lower stack definitely needs help. And the newer JK you wonder if they get the bells engrave before they buff them for lacquer/plating - or they bought the engraving machines from Conn from the mid 80s which were also shallow and faint (being slightly sarcastic here)heath said:JK could do a few things to improve the resale of their tenors. Number one fix the ergos on the lower stack. Number 2 really do a very sharp job of engraving, I know this has nothing to do with how the horn plays, but eye candy does sell and JK's current engraving could be described as shallow and very faint. They do those two things and the horn would probably fetch more.
Yup, but I'm not talking about selling it to an insider. I mean one of the numerous morons out there who jump at all the wrong things. So, you woudn't say "Don Menza", you would say, "just like the legendary lead tenor player for Woody Herman Band, or the musical director/tenor soloist with the great Buddy Rich band", etc. And, you know, "these are so precisely hand-crafted that only a few are released to the public each year for purchase." :twisted:stevesklar said:The only one i can think of, who passed away a while ago was Grover Washington. he always posed with his Couf/JK tenor or soprano. I think he played a Selmer BA alto and i rarely saw a pic of him with that.
Kirl Whalum plays a JK. Clarence Clemmons also. When Ernie Watts was in town, he was playing a JK.heath said:The only problem is name dropping doesn't work for the JK. There's a limited number of pros that rep for JK and more often then not you see them live and in pictures holding a Selmer...usually a VI. Heck even Ernie Watts plays a VI and he's supposed to rep JK. Same thing with Liebman....VI when no one's looking.
And I would not limit this consideration to Selmer and JK. All brand new saxophones are not fetching good immediate resale value nowadays. I see P.Mauriat going on ebay for 1500$ when they sell new for nearly twice as much, same for Cannonball (generally 1000 to 1700$ for a lightly used one, brand new prices around 3K), seems to me that Yanagisawas are the ones holding value better followed by Yamahas, but they still get penalized a lot.Grumps said:If you bought a brand new, made in France Selmer today, and sold it tomorrow, you'd probably lose a grand as well. Reason enough to buy either (a new JK or Selmer) second hand.