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Discussion Starter #1
Particularly older horn, they are harder to blow on lower register than newer horn. Wonder why?

I have this conn 10 m, i need to open my throat and get more air in to blow the lower register properly otherwise it will sound like pffftt or even gurgle. I cant do subtone with this horn. It is very loud when i blow it with full air and opened throat.

My yamaha custom is easier to blow.

Is this what you call distinguised American horn VS Japanese horns?
 

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I really doesn't depend on the age of the horn, bearing in mind all Mk 6 selmers are at least 30 years old -A well set up known brand horn no matter what make or model it is should play well. It's as Saxdaddy says when he mentions tight horns.

I suspect the 10m in your case either probably has some minor leaks, the mouthpiece you used on it is possibly not as compatible as other mpieces or a combination of both.

example - I played on a very old Aldolphe Sax baritone - it was great.

I also played at work, a selmer series 3 tenor straight out of the box from the factory and as is usual with Selmers, it didnt play well at all - I then set it up and it did play well.
 

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Don't even think about it.
 

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Had a brand new Trevor James student horn - very difficult response on low B, low C and Bb also weren´t too easy.
Has anyone ever made this experience with Trevor James horns? I have tried some and almost all had difficult low notes. Other than that they were nice.

Now I´m playing a Keilwerth Toneking, at least 30 years old. Response on lower notes is so easy...love this horn.
 

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Yep! a friend of mine has one Trevor James student (Tenor) horn and at the lower register he has a bit of a trouble...The horn is recently set up but...Its not that big problem you can get use to it. My friend playtested a series III and that was IT! That was the time he realized that his horn has difficulties. But he wont buy the III yet. :|
 

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"Had a brand new Trevor James student horn - very difficult response on low B, low C and Bb also weren´t too easy. Has anyone ever made this experience with Trevor James horns? "

Yes, and every one of 80+ other brands.... when they have leaks.
 

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Some horns, particularly some vintage tenors seems to be harder to make low notes speak. I agree with Grumps, the 10M's (although one of my favorite Tenors) sometimes have resistance on the low ends. Sometimes, it's a warble.

Usually the problem is leaks, less often it is in the design. There are usually tricks to make any horn play better in the low end. This ranges from dropping something in the bell to modifying the bow, changing key heights and adding neck liners.
 

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griff136 said:
I also played at work, a selmer series 3 tenor straight out of the box from the factory and as is usual with Selmers, it didnt play well at all - I then set it up and it did play well.
Oh, yawn.

Let's see. It only comes out of the box once. Sounds good (maybe great) for a lifetime.

What IS your issue? :twisted:
 

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I recently took my Conn 30m to a repairman (a good one) and he ended up leveling four tone holes above G (palm keys and side C), something I didn't know he had to do. That was the cause of some significant leaking, making it especially difficult in the lower register. In my case, the side C was the result of a dent that was hard for me to spot, and the palm key tone holes had cracks or something in them resulting from age.

Anyway, obviously after these repairs the low notes were much easier, but beforehand I STILL was able to get the low notes to speak without warbling. It's about support, practice and perhaps having the right mouthpiece. Old Conn's like big, round mouthpieces. After that, though, I wouldn't ever rule out some kind of leaking issues with an older horn.
 

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Oh, yawn.

Let's see. It only comes out of the box once. Sounds good (maybe great) for a lifetime.

What IS your issue?
I was merely trying to explain, using my experience as a repairer that just because a sax is new/new does not necessarily mean it will play better than an older well set up saxophone.

some older saxes can have slight idiosyncrasies but a well set up horn( as Saxdaddy mentioned and one without leaks - as mentioned by Gordon, Musicmedic and Saxland) should be exactly that a well set up horn, whether its a Selmer series III or a conn new wonder.

I'm sure its quite apparrent that my "issue" ( and I'm not alone here) is that for the amount of money a brand new selmer paris sax costs you would expect it to be a lot better set up than they are straight from the factory and another beef of mine would be, whilst I'm on my soap box, you would also think you would actually get a case in the price!!


Don't get me wrong though - I play selmers, they're my main instruments
 

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Oh, yawn.

Let's see. It only comes out of the box once. Sounds good (maybe great) for a lifetime.

What IS your issue?
I was merely trying to explain, using my experience as a repairer that just because a sax is new/new does not necessarily mean it will play better than an older well set up saxophone.

some older saxes can have slight idiosyncrasies but a well set up horn( as Saxdaddy mentioned and one without leaks - as mentioned by Gordon, Musicmedic and Saxland) should be exactly that a weell set up horn whether its a Selmer series III or a conn new wonder.

I'm sure its quite apparrent that my "issue" ( and I'm not alone here) is that for the amount of money a brand new selmer paris sax costs you would expect it to be a lot better set up than they are straight from the factory and another beef of mine would be, whilst I'm on my soap box, you would also think you would actually get a case in the price!!



Don't get me wrong though - I play selmers they're my main instruments .
 

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The 10M is a very different beast than the Yamaha. 10Ms are "big bore" horns that naturally will take more air and force to play. A Yamaha or a Selmer has a smaller bore and will give a more focused sound. (there are many many more factors to this, I know, but I'm purposefully staying vague).

In that 10M you've got an awesome Rock 'N Roll, Jazz, R&B horn. Sure you can play classical on it, or something with a little sweeter/lighter sound, and it will sound alright, but I personally don't feel like it will compare to what you'd get out of a modern Yamaha or Selmer for that kind of playing. It's just not the kind of horn that is meant to be delicate. AND YES, a good player will sound similar on whatever instrument he plays, but it seems to me that it would still be much easier to get that very different, and equally as good sound on a horn other than a 10M.

As to your specific issues, the above advice is good: check for leaks, mess with different mouthpieces and reeds. Some of it is equipment and setup, some of it is just adjusting to the horn.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I brought the horn back to the tech that repaired it, he was quite surprised as he told me that it plays well before I picked it up last saturday, then he examined the horn and found that one of the key in upper register (i cant remember which one and didnt ask) was a little bit bent and he feel really bad about it as he didint know what happened with it. When I picked up the horn I didnt actually test it because I was in the hurry, well I did play it and found some difficulties in blowing the lower register but his assistant suggested that I need to open my throat...so I thought...well I'll try this at home.

After long hours trying, I still cant do this and I asked one of my mate about it and he told me any horn if its set up well and got no leaks should play with ease.

In short, I came back to him on monday, and he was surprised as well. The he found this leak on the upper reg key and the key was very slightly bent. He corrected the problem, straightened the key and voila, it PLAYS like magic!!! I can go up and down reaaaaaaly easy.

One thing tho, I find a little trouble with low C. Now before I come back to my tech again (and boy he lives about 1 hr drive from my place)and give him a hard time =), maybe someone can tell me if its just me. The thing is, the low C gurgles when I blow soft or subtoning but when I really blow with throat and much air, it blows ok. All the keys except the low C are sounding very nice, not a gurgle. So this is just the low C, so any suggestion there or its really just me this time?

Another question, if you can play good on every notes except the low C would that means the upper registries are free of leaks because I heard that the upper keys stack have great influence to lower reg stack except the low C, I heard you can adjust the low C by moving the key felts up or down (for certain saxes with screws on key guards but unfortunately not on 10 as it doesnt have any felt adjuster screw.) to eliminate the gurgling sound. Funny things when I had the problem with the E F D and C before, the upper register can sound nicely although the leak came from one of the key hole in upper reg.

Maybe theres any trick or tips to reduce the gurgling of the low c for 10m?
Thanks.
 

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Raise the key height on the low B pad is as high as it can go and see if that helps. Also, just to confirm an issue of accoustics, will the C play better if you push your mouthpiece in further? I know it will make you sharp, but see if that helps just for purposes of diagnostics.
 

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I was surprised to find that I could barely get any sound out of the 3 Borgani altos I tried at Allegro Music, whereas the Yani 901 & the Ref 54 were easy-peasy, even for a relative newbie..... one assumes that demo horns would be properly set-up?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Grumps said:
Raise the key height on the low B pad is as high as it can go and see if that helps. Also, just to confirm an issue of accoustics, will the C play better if you push your mouthpiece in further? I know it will make you sharp, but see if that helps just for purposes of diagnostics.
Thanks grump, may I ask you which one is the low B pad???:? And how to raise it?

This conn 10 m doesnt allow me to push the mouthpiece further down as I only need about 1 cm from the tip of the cork as it will make the horn out of tune if I push it further in. To accomodate this, my 10m has been double corked to ensure my otto link fits tight as the link has bigger hole.
 
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