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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I want to buy a good (with good sound and also intonation) baritone but with low Bb.
Any advice besides a Mark VI?
Thanks in advance!
 

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How about a few specifics?

price range? You can go from $500 to $10,000 here
Horn level? Student? Intermediate? Professional?
Prefer classic or modern horns?

What are you currently playing? Is this your first Bari? What is your main horn & brand?

Help us to help you
 

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And why do you prefer a low Bb?
Great point, If you are going to play any of the funk or Motown tunes you need the low A. Increasingly more Big Band charts also call for that A.... besides the fact that it is so fun to play it! When I traded my Bb for an A, the first few times I got it out of the case, I would play the low A & just laugh out loud!
 

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Buescher 400. Heavy but good all around horn when in adjustment.
 

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Buescher. Conn. King. Martin. Selmer. SML. Keilwerth. The usual suspects. All of these have their idiosyncracies.
P. Mauriat I believe makes a low Bb (Taiwan or China, but pretty well respected).
 

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With that giant bell I wouldn't be surprised if a Buescher 400 weighs almost as much as some of the modern low A horns. Great horn, though.
My 400 weighs more than the low A Yamaha that I used to borrow from my kids high school.
'Old Beuford' is a beast. ;)
 

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And why do you prefer a low Bb?
Great point, If you are going to play any of the funk or Motown tunes you need the low A. Increasingly more Big Band charts also call for that A.... besides the fact that it is so fun to play it! When I traded my Bb for an A, the first few times I got it out of the case, I would play the low A & just laugh out loud!
Gonna chime in here....this topic has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere on this Forum.

So I am not certain digressing into it here is apropos.

When I see an OP specifically requesting suggestions on a Low Bb, my assumption is the person has gone thru the consideration and reached their conclusion they want the Low Bb. There are many a reason one might prefer the low Bb (these discussed in other threads as well).
I am not sure it's worth recycling that convo here.
Just sayin'....

Good Low Bb's:

Vintage (as in traditional vintage keywork) : Buescher, Martin Committees, Holtons, Conn 12M*, Some older Noblets. Kohlert (Germany).

Modernesque: J. Keilwerth "New King"-type stencils such as the King Tempo or Bundy Special. Vito Dukes or Specials (by Beaugnier). King Super 20. B&S made some low Bb's, too. The more modern Grassis are excellent Low Bb's. Some R&C stencils from the 70's-80's are also very good, albeit hard to identify due to their stencil names.

(*IMHO a little overrated a model, although possibly considered the most 'classic' of 'em all)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
How about a few specifics?

price range? You can go from $500 to $10,000 here
Horn level? Student? Intermediate? Professional?
Prefer classic or modern horns?

What are you currently playing? Is this your first Bari? What is your main horn & brand?

Help us to help you


Good questions!
Price: I don´t know yet. Maybe til 5000.
Professional level.
I play as a solist in Blues, Funk, Soul, Pop bands.
It is my first bari.
I play a tenor Selmer Ref. 36.

Regards
 

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For me it plays easier, and it is lighter and smaller.
If you say so! Many 'vintage' baritone saxophones are as heavy, or heavier than modern low A horns.
As for smaller, ~2-3 inches doesn't make that much difference.
 

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Good questions!
Price: I don´t know yet. Maybe til 5000.
Professional level.
I play as a solist in Blues, Funk, Soul, Pop bands.
It is my first bari.
I play a tenor Selmer Ref. 36.

Regards
Sorry to chime in, but considering the music you're targeting, I'd give my vote to a low A horn.
 

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Cheers cymru97, they are indeed.

As Jaye said above they were sold as stencils from so many different companies for a reason.

I have had a couple of low A baritones in my possession ( Jupiter, Grassi and Weltklang) but I have never had the impression that a Low A baritone could be lighter than a Low Bb baritone.
 

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http://www.saxofan.fr/topic4388.html?highlight=

Saxophone baryton au Bb :

Conn des 40ty : 5,0 kg (Bar78)
Conn 12M 1942 : 4.8 kg (Bidulon)
Conn 12M 1969 : 4,9 kg (piment)
Conn 1958 : 4,6 kg (rapetou)
Dolnet: 5,1 kg (Bidulon)
Dolnet Euphone : 4,2 kg (Byzounours)
R&C R1 Jazz (sans F#) : 4,9 kg (BulZ)
Selmer Mark VI (sans F#) : 5,0 kg (Massif),4,8 kg (La tomate qui jazze)



Saxophone baryton au A :

Buffet Crampon 400 : 6,0 kg (Adlib99, Buescher27)
Conn 11M : 5,3 kg (Piment)
Dolnet Bel Air (custom sans mi ni fa aigu) : 5,5 kg (Pasci)
Jupiter 593 : 5,1 kg (Tenor38)
Rampone & Cazzani R1 : 6,0 kg (R&C)
Selmer Mark VI : 5,2 kg (Koalaman)
Selmer Mark VII : 5,3 kg (Dany du grot)
Selmer SA 80 : 5,5 kg (Bbar)
Selmer SA 80 II : 6,0 kg (Thy31,Menagex) 5,7 kg (Rico)
Selmer SBA argenté : 5,5 kg (PHIL)
Yamaha YBS 32 (sans F#) : 5,5 kg (Stadler)
Yamaha YBS 62 : 5,6 kg (Bidulon)
Yanagisawa B 900 : 5,6 kg (Chris)
 

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And THAT should resolve THAT discussion. Thanks, Click.

So a fair generalization would be to say most Low A's are gonna be 1-2 pounds heavier than most Low Bb's.

FWIW...I think they may to some 'seem' significantly heavier just because of the mass of the instrument, the exterior envelope itself, the visual/physical location/position of the bell and all....it might be more a matter of seeming slightly more "unwieldy".

But again,as the OP stated he's looking for a Low Bb...this side discussion, while perhaps interesting....isn't helping the OP much....
 

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Good questions!
Price: I don´t know yet. Maybe til 5000.
Professional level.
I play as a solist in Blues, Funk, Soul, Pop bands.
It is my first bari.
I play a tenor Selmer Ref. 36.

Regards
I'd say if you wanted something NOW, and didn't want to spend your whole budget, look for the Keilwerths. There are usually many around, although I add not in the apparent condition Milandro's appears to be in.

If you wanted to get it now and were ready to spend your whole budget, a Selmer France.

If you wanted to take your time and find something pretty special and not very common, the Super 20.

Interestingly...Rampone Cazzani also apparently still makes a Low Bb...the R1 model. If you are OK with an unlacquered horn or a plated finishes, those might be an option. Superlative saxophones, but probably beyond your price point...
 

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I recommend the same:

if you are looking out for getting value for money, have a close look at the Keilwerths.
The one that milandro offers is in a very good state. He kindly gave me the opportunity to try it out last year, when I visited him, because I was interested in a soprano he offered.

If you are looking for a modern, exclusive and therefore more expensive alternative you might be interested in the R&C Jazz that I offer at the German forum:

http://www.saxophonforum.de/threads/rampone-cazzani-r1-jazz-eb-bari.33109/

I won‘t sell my Super 20…
 
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