[cliveyx]

Given there are representatives from Chinese manufacturing who have the clout to get these things off the ground. Lets discuss the what's when's and numbers .
I for 1 am interested in replica / tribute M series Conns with rolled tone holes and would pay around $800 .

 

[Grumps]

Yeah, go to the land of Crap to remake horns that are still out there, working just fine, doing just what they were meant for. So for me, the short answer is NONE.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Given there are representatives from Chinese manufacturing who have the clout to get these things off the ground. Lets discuss the what's when's and numbers .
I for 1 am interested in replica / tribute M series Conns with rolled tone holes and would pay around $800 .

I'm slightly confused by the subject of the thread and the above, can you clarify what you mean: clone/replica/tribute. Also I hope you realise the term replica refers to illegal counterfeits. A "clone" if that is possible would be legal provided it is not branded as a Conn. A tribute would be a different matter, e.g. a Ref54 is a tribute to a MKVI - so it is not a clone, but supposedly nods it hat in that direction.

I can't imagine there being a lot of demand for either so my gut feeling is this would be unlikely although of course it would be very possible to make a very good close copy, but for $800 (retail) - I think that wit wouldn't be possible for any entrepreneur to make something top quality for that kind of price. Top end manufacturing in China is getting more and more expensive. I have been doing some research and although there are still plenty of low quality sweatshop type factories, the high end manufacturers who have a much higher ratio of skilled to semiskilled to unskilled so although you can obviously still get a cheap saxophone made, to get quality the costs are a lot higher. Also these types of factories that can deliver the kind of quality you get in Europe or Japanese saxophone ne manufacturing are quite rare.

Even when you identify one, they are very busy as they are making parts for the "big four" as well as some European boutique manufacturers.

But it is possible, however as mentioned, I think the final price would be way higher, especially given the investment needed in tooling and development.

 

[cliveyx]

I'm slightly confused by the subject of the thread and the above, can you clarify what you mean: clone/replica/tribute. Also I hope you realise the term replica refers to illegal counterfeits. A "clone" if that is possible would be legal provided it is not branded as a Conn. A tribute would be a different matter, e.g. a Ref54 is a tribute to a MKVI - so it is not a clone, but supposedly nods it hat in that direction.

I can't imagine there being a lot of demand for either so my gut feeling is this would be unlikely although of course it would be very possible to make a very good close copy, but for $800 (retail) - I think that wit wouldn't be possible for any entrepreneur to make something top quality for that kind of price. Top end manufacturing in China is getting more and more expensive. I have been doing some research and although there are still plenty of low quality sweatshop type factories, the high end manufacturers who have a much higher ratio of skilled to semiskilled to unskilled so although you can obviously still get a cheap saxophone made, to get quality the costs are a lot higher. Also these types of factories that can deliver the kind of quality you get in Europe or Japanese saxophone ne manufacturing are quite rare.

Even when you identify one, they are very busy as they are making parts for the "big four" as well as some European boutique manufacturers.

But it is possible, however as mentioned, I think the final price would be way higher, especially given the investment needed in tooling and development.

Thanks Pete. I recently spoke to someone close to these things who has been on this website and suggested there was a market for tribute/ replicas of classic American horns.Not Fakes. This thread is an opportunity for those who would like a chance to propose certain models to make suggestions that may be considered. If there is no demand shown then no such horns will be considered for manufacturing.

 

[hallda01]

Yeah, I thought this was gonna be a thread about horns like the Selmer Reference series or Powell Silver Eagle or the Buffet Senzo line. Horns that are new and modern, but are clearly pulling from the same sound and design philosophy of a vintage horn.

It would be cool if a company like Cannonball took their Vintage Reborn line and rather than attempt another Selmer clone, have it be more stylistically like a Buescher or something not available today. Call it the Vintage Reborn 400 or something.

P. Mauriat are already making horns with rolled tone holes if they wanted to make a horn that's like a Conn. How about a 6P.M. and a 10P.M.?

 

[Pete Thomas]

If there is no demand shown then no such horns will be considered for manufacturing.

Glad you aren't talking about replicas then.

I doubt anyone would make such an investment purely from the demand on SOTW. My gut feeling is there will be very little demand compared with the cost of tooling, especially to make rolled tone holes.

 

[Dr G]

Barone already gave a nod to the Conn body tube with his "Vintage" line - the "Classic" was an homage to Mk VI style (or vice versa).

Similarly, Rich Maraday tried some SBA and Super 20 styling, but he has since put those aside.

Trying to market a Buescher 156 would be a real stretch. What would its defining selling points be? Norton springs? Snap-On resos? Awkward pinkie table?


If you are looking for a Conn-inspired tone and modern ergos, both Borgani and Rampone & Cazzani are there already.

 

[cliveyx]

Glad you aren't talking about replicas then.

I doubt anyone would make such an investment purely from the demand on SOTW. My gut feeling is there will be very little demand compared with the cost of tooling, especially to make rolled tone holes.[/QUOTE

For Sure The numbers may just to low, that remains to be seen. The company I have been talking too already make rolled tone holes horns , proper ones. They also make very very good looking clones. Basically if they can be shown there is a demand they may do what's been happening in the guitar world for decades.
I'm resting my case now so basically I have done my bit by providing the platform or should that be gallows.?

 

[Fader]

From what I think I know - it's a pipe dream........ but I'm a big fan of my King Super 20's....


.....assuming a clone could be made, then parts would no longer be a problem...

 

[Pete Thomas]

For Sure The numbers may just to low, that remains to be seen. The company I have been talking too already make rolled tone holes horns , proper ones. They also make very very good looking clones. Basically if they can be shown there is a demand they may do what's been happening in the guitar world for decades.
I'm resting my case now so basically I have done my bit by providing the platform or should that be gallows.?

Haha, yes gallows probably!

No seriously this is a good question and a worthwhile thread. I am maybe a bit over cynical. If they are already tooled up for proper rolled tone holes then they are part of the way there.

But I am still sceptical about the market. people who want Conns generally want the real thing. The huge market, ie beginners, schools, parents etc. would likely set no store by the concept of remaking an instrument from 80 years ago (that was mostly abandoned by the great players in favour of Selmer.. Maybe I'll be proved wrong.

 

[Pete Thomas]

but I'm a big fan of my King Super 20's....
.....assuming a clone could be made, then parts would no longer be a problem...

I can't see why a clone can't be made, Powell did something very close. I think it was almost a clone, just had tone holes in slightly different places to improve on the tuning.

 

[malteof]

Also I hope you realise the term replica refers to illegal counterfeits.

What if the original brand makes a replica?

 

[Pete Thomas]

What if the original brand makes a replica?

That is fine as they own the trademark.

 

[Dr G]

What if the original brand makes a replica?

That is called "manufacturing".

 

[nigeld]

A Buescher True Tone alto with modern keywork would be rather nice. But it would have to sound like a True Tone.

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

What if the original brand makes a replica?

Reminds me of a joke............

The other day somebody stole everything in my apartment and replaced it with an exact replica... When my roommate came home I said, "Roommate, someone stole everything in our apartment and replaced it with an exact replica." He looked at me and said, "Do I know you?"
- Steven Wright

 

[ZootTheSim]

I own a real Buescher 400 tenor, but would like to try a Conn 30M clone, a Super 20 clone, and a The Martin with improved ergos, all for $800. Heck, I'd buy one of each. I'd pay $1000 for a The Martin bari clone.

If they cost any more, I'd probably just hold out for the real McCoy.

 

[Dr G]

I own a real Buescher 400 tenor, but would like to try a Conn 30M clone, a Super 20 clone, and a The Martin with improved ergos, all for $800. Heck, I'd buy one of each. I'd pay $1000 for a The Martin bari clone.

If they cost any more, I'd probably just hold out for the real McCoy.

Agree - the expectation of a functional instrument for $800 is unrealistic. At any greater cost, the Real Deal is worth it - especially if you consider resale later. Then the Real Deal will likely be worth just as much as when you bought it (if you shop wisely), and the no-name replica will be a disposable item.

 

[sugaki]

Do I want cloned next--has there been a successful clone of anything from China (or anywhere else) before?

I've tried countless Mark VI "clones" or "inspirations" from the Brecker vintage, none sound like a Mark VI. The only horn I've played that sounds a lot like a Mark VI is the Ref 54 alto (not tenor).

 

[ZootTheSim]

Still not convinced about clones. I had a "Beyond Burger" for dinner tonight, grilled over mesquite. It was good, but didn't really taste like meat.