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My daughter got 2 school offers.
1. Manhattan school of Music, Bachelor of Music in Classical Saxophone. Teacher Paul Cohen.
2. John Hopkins, Peabody Conservatory, Bachelor of Music, Saxophone, Performance, Teacher Gary Louie.

Need advice.
 

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I don't know enough to advise- but congratulations to your daughter!! I got a full scholarship to the University of North Florida for saxophone at that age- it was so exciting- good luck with your decision- lots of stuff to consider I'm sure. :)
 

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Nice.
1) Does your daughter want to attend either of these schools?
2) Has she toured the campus of either school?
3) HER education, HER choice.
 

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All I would say is that taking on debt or cashing in your retirement funds for a bachelor's degree in classical saxophone performance will probably have a very poor return on investment. If it's a free ride or you can pay cash for the whole thing, more power to you.
 

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Nice.
1) Does your daughter want to attend either of these schools?
2) Has she toured the campus of either school?
3) HER education, HER choice.
Geez. He's asking for advice on schools. He's not asking "Where should I send my daughter no matter what she wants?". Take it easy.
I'm with band mommy on this. Partly because I know kids of this age, not because I was one once and partly because I just did a tour of Virginia with my 18 year old son looking at colleges.

He picked up on the vibes of the social atmosphere, surroundings he'd be happy living in etc. Like most kids, if I had said, "this is good because the reputation of the education here will help you get into whatever" he'd have just done the opposite.

With a music performance degree the whole thing is even more moot because something like 0.01% of students will ever benefit from the actual, degree. I went to music college, the qualification was useless, the best thing was being surrounded by other motivated students and practice rooms.

I learnt nothing from my saxophone teacher apart from how to go down the pub instead of having bring lessons, until he got me on a scary gig (Neil Sedaka) playing lead alto with him on 2nd alto sitting next to me and swearing at me.

Let her choose what seems to be the college she likes in the location she likes. Most relevant education happens outside or after college.
 

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If she was accepted, I'm sure professors at both schools would be willing to offer her a lesson. If you could travel to both & make that happen, she'd be able to get a good sense of what she was in for over the next ~4 years. I was debating between two different schools & met with each sax professor/took a lesson. It made my choice extremely easy.
 

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All I would say is that taking on debt or cashing in your retirement funds for a bachelor's degree in classical saxophone performance will probably have a very poor return on investment. If it's a free ride or you can pay cash for the whole thing, more power to you.
I disagree. It's a poor return on your investment even if you are paying cash mwahahahaha.
 

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Decades ago I lived in Baltimore, went to school in Baltimore and later worked in Baltimore. I was just in Baltimore this afternoon. If I had a daughter I would never let her near Baltimore for a night out, let alone moving there. The city is wholly corrupt, the police force neutered and crime now rampant in once safe areas downtown in broad daylight.

Don't know about the school in Manhattan, but Paul Cohen is a very helpful member here.
 

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@davidyang - Welcome to SoTW where the advice is free, mostly friendly, albeit brutally honest. Just remember you get what you pay for!! :mrgreen:

I agree with Grumps about Baltimore. I know a young single lady who moved out from Wisconsin about 6 years ago to do the accelerated nursing program at Johns Hopkins. NOT the best part of Baltimore by far. She would definitely not go out at night...

Don't know anything about the surroundings of the Manhattan School of Music...

Good luck with your school investigation. Let us know how it turns out!
 

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Bandmommy is 100% right. Having said that, Paul Cohen is one the best teachers on the planet.


My daughter got 2 school offers.
1. Manhattan school of Music, Bachelor of Music in Classical Saxophone. Teacher Paul Cohen.
2. John Hopkins, Peabody Conservatory, Bachelor of Music, Saxophone, Performance, Teacher Gary Louie.

Need advice.
 

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I know a young single lady who moved out from Wisconsin about 6 years ago to do the accelerated nursing program at Johns Hopkins. NOT the best part of Baltimore by far.
Hopkins just got the go ahead from the state to have their own police force. That's how bad it's gotten, and how little faith there is in the Baltimore City Police Department; where the last commissioner was just sentenced to jail time for tax evasion. The mayor was referred for a criminal investigation as well this week.
 

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Hopkins just got the go ahead from the state to have their own police force. That's how bad it's gotten, and how little faith there is in the Baltimore City Police Department; where the last commissioner was just sentenced to jail time for tax evasion. The mayor was referred for a criminal investigation as well this week.
I hadn't heard about the Hopkins police force but yeah, Baltimore city officials have made the news for the last year or so and it's not in a good sense.

I have a couple of pretty good friends and one I'll call an acquaintance who are Peabody alumni... they're very sad and disappointed with the state of the city and the need for a campus police force...
 

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Get a degree studying what you love if you can.

An undergraduate degree is valuable, and a student will do better in an area of interest.
 

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Get a degree studying what you love if you can.

An undergraduate degree is valuable, and a student will do better in an area of interest.
Not if it leaves you 22 years old and $100,000 to $200,000 in debt.

As I said above, if you get a free ride, or can afford to pay cash all the way, not take on any debt, or raid your parents' retirement funds, then go for it, study anything that is non-remunerative. Otherwise, in this day and age you need to be very careful.

Graduating at 22 with a non-marketable degree and zero debt, and your parents have not been severely affected to pay your tuition, is pretty minor stuff. You live on ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches for a couple years, you either get a sustainable musical career going or you don't; if you don't, you go back to school and learn something you can make a living at (or you get into something that makes a living, that doesn't require you to go back to school).

Graduating at 22 with a non-marketable degree and $100,000 in student debt dragging you down is like trying to go jogging with a grand piano attached to you. All your viable options get drastically narrowed.
 

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I hadn't heard about the Hopkins police force but yeah, Baltimore city officials have made the news for the last year or so and it's not in a good sense.

I have a couple of pretty good friends and one I'll call an acquaintance who are Peabody alumni... they're very sad and disappointed with the state of the city and the need for a campus police force...
Man, back in 1980 I met a guy from Baltimore (who became a good friend and band leader of a rather successful band I was in), who even back then referred to it as the "A$$h**e of the universe". (He was not a big booster of his home town.)
 

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I hadn't heard about the Hopkins police force...
They were actually protesting this yesterday. Not wanting more guns on the street. Carried by police officers.

Let that sink in. The lunatics are running the asylum.
 

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I don't think anyone would think there was a good ROI on any music degree. Only 1% go on to play for a living. But reflecting back on my college years, I didn't even care if I graduated -- all I wanted was the knowledge my teachers had to give, and to learn well enough to be able to play with anyone, anywhere. It's made me happy. That's a decent ROI.

So picking between the two schools, both with excellent reputations, I agree with those that say go visit them and pick the vibe.
 
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