[theperthvan]

I saw this on eBay Australia. It's pretty cheap, but can't find any info on King 662's.
If anyone has any idea, could you let me know?
Cheers

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/King-Tenor-Saxophone-/320785828492?pt=AU_Musical_Instruments_Instruments&hash=item4ab0534a8c#ht_711wt_1396

 

[JayeLID]

Definitely has it wrong on year of manufacture...that's a 7-digit serial and King was still in 6 digits as of 1970.

I suspect we are looking at an '80's or later horn...$300 Aussie bill$ isn't really a good deal, particularly considering it is just the opening bid and the seller makes absolutely NO mention of its playability ("no tears on pads"...wow, that's a bit of useful info, eh ?...)

Doesn't mean it's a bad horn....but certainly won't be at the same level as a bona-fide classic King of the '60's or earlier....nobody here (checking the search feature) really seems to have much experience w/'em)

 

[JayeLID]

Wow...you blokes have it rough when it comes to Tenors on eFlay-DownUnder, eh ?

Besides the fact that sellers there seem to have no realistic concept of what actual market values are....thus the pretty silly Buy Now prices I am seeing....there isn't much of a selection. That's kinda sad.....

Unfortunately, us postal service rate hikes makes it nearly impossible (OK, really impossible) to ship a Tenor, well-packed, to AU any longer, also.....and the private carriers are no better.....

 

[JayeLID]

Okay...so...this is a 662...the King Empire (which is a '90's + horn) is a 665 (alto) model and has a 7-digit serial number. The Empires are not highly regarded.

But...

This horn has rolled toneholes....interesting; and appears from the little info available online to have been usa-made.

Might be the predecessor of the Empire model...so (also judging from the logo on the case) I am gonna stick with my initial hunch that she's an '80's horn. The King logo on the Empire differs from the one on this one, too....Comparing the Empire's details to this one, this one seems to have more going for it compared to the very lean and stripped down Empire 665.

One went on eFlay a while ago:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KING-662-TENOR-SAXOPHONE-CLEAN-HORN-/180741455463

Apparently not considered a higher-end player by any means, this was a few decades after King's heyday...but nevertheless, they were still producing a lotta horns even then (I believe they even still had an S20 in the '80's)....

Hmmm....if you can grab her for under $400 it may be a good deal.
But I would really expect to have to put $100 of work into her...so do factor that in as well.

But...not an un-interesting auction, really.
Comes with a nice stand, also (not joking, that's a high-quality stand).

If what you seek is a classic King, with a classic King tone...this horn probably ain't it. But if what you want is to nab an inexpensive Tenor which may be a bit of a sleeper & not another forgettable run-of-the-mill asian budget horn...yeah, it may be worth plopping a few bids on.

I mean, if I saw that auction here...for kicks, I might lay down 3 bill$ for it, just outta curiousity.....

 

[milandro]

this is a King Tempo made by Keilwerth for H.N. White , they were somewhere between the cleveland series (613-615) and the Super 20.

Certainly undervalued and worth buying at that price.

 

[JayeLID]

Hello, Milandro.

I am pretty certain this isn't a Tempo model, though. Compare some images of the two. This has none of the JK attributes....completely different bellbrace, completely different fingertouches, spat keys. Rolled holes, also...while the Tempo didn't have rolled holes...

Good thought, but this looks a good decade later than a Tempo, IMHO...

 

[milandro]

to me this has Keilwerth written all over the place

 

[theperthvan]

Thanks JayePDX.

I don't think I'll get it. I was hoping that it'd be some awesome horn that someone found in his shed and put it up for sale.

Cheers for your information.

 

[JayeLID]

to me this has Keilwerth written all over the place

Oh well, friend...I still see nothing Tempo about this horn at all; although since you mentioned it, it does have some resemblance to a more modern SX90, particularly on the bellkey side, where many of the elements are hecka close...but that resemblance fails to carry thru on the opposite side with the octave mech and the LH palmkeys.

Would be interesting if that were the case, and one of the best-kept secrets in the sax world, too....

As usual, the one pic we need isn't there: a seller gives a slew of photos and manages to MISS the pinky table EVERY time !

Perthvan...are things really that bad over there. I mean, the eFlay prices are absurd. $900 for a used YTS 23 ? $39 for a box of 10 Orangebox Rico reeds ? $700 opening bid on a Conn 16M ?

I believe usd and aud are about the sa-

...oops...of course, aud is stronger than usd....big surprise, there....

I mean, if that is really the market there, then ponying up $400 (or that'd be around $375 aud) for shipping a Tenor over there isn't a bad proposition at all.....

 

[milandro]

I wouldn't know another brand that, by the time this horn was made still made use of rolled toneholes, Besides some of the keys are Keilwerth style........ anyway it is not of a capital importance to assess whether my suspicions are well founded

 

[saxphil]

This has none of the JK attributes....completely different bellbrace, completely different fingertouches, spat keys. Rolled holes, also...while the Tempo didn't have rolled holes...

It also does not have the signature Keilwerth diamond shaped pillars.

 

[JayeLID]

I wouldn't know another brand that, by the time this horn was made still made use of rolled toneholes, Besides some of the keys are Keilwerth style........ anyway it is not of a capital importance to assess whether my suspicions are well founded

...aaaaaaaaw, cmon' buckaroo...sure it is ! Everyone is important in their own, special way. :flower::hello2:

Initially I thought your eye was suspect until I looked at more modern JK's, and as I said, there are a number of aesthetic similarities. And I know, the RTH are throwing me off, too.

I mean, I do not believe S20's had rolled holes, right ? And if memory serves, no other second-shelf Kings ever had 'em.

Ssssssssssoooooo..... why would a lesser model have them, then ??? That might suggest the body was made elsewhere.

(But then again, actually...Conn was making some models, domestically, with RTH's in the '80's (24M, 25M) for example.....)

Makes one wonder still..... if made by King..... why invest RTH's in a middle or beginner model (if in fact a 662 is) ? This is arguably the most obscure horn to sport the King moniker...there's almost zilch on the 'net about 'em.....

 

[milandro]

Yes, King, by this time belonged to UMI/Conn-Selmer and they could have sourced a horn from another of their factories (which were no longer producing much by that time) but why would they have chosen an option such as the rolled toneholes on a horn which doesn't look like an American horn of the time or before, adding rolled toneholes which they had discontinued many years before because it had made their horns too expensive to be competitive an the market? .........and that for a horn clearly aimed at the intermediate market?
Remember this happened while they were stripping any possible extra trimmings off the Super 20's.
I agree on the mysterious origin.
No Japanese horn ever had rolled toneholes.
In Europe, at that time, the only surviving factory which could have seemingly done this was Keilwerth. I am open to other interpretations though.

 

[Starsax A2]

My King 660 alto has rolled tone holes. As to how much of a "second shelf" horn it is, I definitely prefer it in tone and feel to my YAS-23. I would someday love to compare a 662 tenor to my 23 tenor to see if the same difference applies.

 

[milandro]

well, the 660 is the alto of these series.

King had, at the time they made this, three series and this was right in the middle. It might have been a better horn than the Super 20 of the time.............but they sold it cheaper. I am not implying anything, just stating a fact. This, we know.

What we don't know is who made it, which is the object of the thread really.

 

[Starsax A2]

I haven't been able to trace much on the history of these horns other than a general assumption that they are some of the last American made student horns. If they are actually Keilwerths, so much the better.

 

[Thomsax]

I also think it's Keilwerth built saxes. Looks like my "The New King (straight toneholes) and my Keilwerth/Dörfler&Jörka stencil (rolled toneholes). Keilwerth made a DJH modified sax for Conn (pre UMI) in the 80's (with rolled or straight toneholes) and these Kings have much in common with DJH's.

 

[saxphil]

I also think it's Keilwerth built saxes. Looks like my "The New King (straight toneholes) and my Keilwerth/Dörfler&Jörka stencil (rolled toneholes). Keilwerth made a DJH modified sax for Conn (pre UMI) in the 80's (with rolled or straight toneholes) and these Kings have much in common with DJH's.

Nope.

I have an '80's Conn DJH modified tenor.
It has the diamond shaped pillars, as Keilwerths do.
A single bar, bell to body brace.
Non adjustable RH thumbhook.
Pearl touches on the LH octave, high F, G# and keys.

The keys on that King resemble more those of an Armstrong 3050, than a Conn DJH modified.

My DJH modified 98 tenor is exactly like an Armstrong Heritage and Superba II, made by Keilwerth.
The rolled tone holed 110 DJH, of course, is like a Superba I.

 

[Thomsax]

Saxphil,

Yes, you're right the King "660" looks differnt compared to a DJH. The design of keys, braces, posts, keygards .... often vary from brand to brand. But what's really interesting when we are talking about saxes and thier relationship is; dimensions of the neck, toneholes placement on the tube, bore & taper. These things really makes differences. Maybe 85%-90% of the tone and timbre depends on these factors. So I think the neck, bore&taper and tonehole placments are the same on King Tempo, DJH, Couf , "The New King" ..... .

I think these Kings saxes are great. So buy one and play it!

 

[JayeLID]

I asked seller the serial #, and it is a pre-UMI horn per the serial #.....this was made when King was still King....but they were doing a lotta subcontracting when they were HQ'd in Eastlake....