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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
All,

Back in June I purchased my P. Mauriat 67r alto. I love the horn, but I wasn't exactly planning on purchasing a professional horn. I was hoping to buy an intermediate, so I was planning on buying the Yamaha YAS-480. I played that horn, along with the P. Mauriat 57GC alto. Both sounded bad for me, I play on a Selmer S80 C*. I wasn't sure why both sounded so horrible, so I asked one of the guy at the shop and, after listening to me play, told me I was "outplaying" the saxophone. I searched the forum a bit and I couldn't find anything about it. I hadn't taken any notice to it until now, when a Tenor buddy of mine used the term when talking about his Meyer mouthpiece. Is "outplaying" a real thing, or just a term used to make customers spend more money? I haven't heard of the term before, but I just went with it. It seemed reasonable enough at the time, the horn sounded bad, therefore I was outplaying it. Is this a real term? I sound great on both my P. Mauriat and my Selmer Bundy II, which is very old. Have any of you experienced "outplaying," or is it just a false term???

-Payton :)
 

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The guy at the shop told you that you had reached the top that you could possibly have been going to get on you Yamaha ( at the age of 14 and after 4 years of playing!) and that THEREFORE you NEEDED to upgrade to a P.Mauriat that HE sold just ever so MERCIFULLY to you?.

Man, this is the oldest trick in the book. Unscrupulous selling basics.

Of course you had to pay to UPGRADE right? And you made yourself poorer and the shop richer, right?

Overplaying may be meaning that you are blowing too hard, but NO the guy at the shop just played YOU into buying a new horn. No chance that you have outplayed your Yamaha 480.

The shops has (over) played you though. Who paid for the horn? (is one question mark not generally enough ?!? :twisted:)

Hi,
My name's Payton Cy. I'm a fourteen year old high school student, and this is my fourth year playing the alto saxophone. I have a Selmer Bundy II, as well as a P. Mauriat PMXA-67R DK. I also play the piano, bass guitar, drums, and ukulele. I've been a musician my whole life, and playing the saxophone has really grown my passion for music.
Though I joined back in August, I plan to truly become active on the forums.
Thanks guys,
PaytonCy
 

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'Overplaying' only exists in the sense that you play too much and interfere with others who may be singing or soloing at the time. Its something every player has to keep in mind when playing with others. It has no meaning in the context you related.
 

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Overplaying does not exist.
Over-playing exists as surely as over-singing exists. Sometimes all that is required is to play or sing the melody, nothing more. Some feel they have to throw in as much extra as they can. More notes are not always better. That is over-playing/singing. Also, like 1saxman says, if you get in the way, you are over-playing. I've played with musicians who think "fills" must be everywhere at all times. That is over-playing. The really excellent musicians not only know when to play, but when NOT to play.
 

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The salesman persuaded you to buy a more expensive horn than you were planning to buy. His explanation doesn’t make any sense, but you say you didn’t like the Yamaha and the other Mauriat and that you love the one you have got. So it sounds to me that you have ended up with the right horn for you. In the end, the salesman did you a favour, whatever his motives were. Enjoy your new saxophone!
 

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Overplaying does not exist.
Unfortunately, the OP has confused this thread by referring to both "overplaying" and "outplaying." His final question is about "overplaying," but that's not really the topic here. The title of the thread, and the OP's post in its entirety, make it clear that the real issue is alleged "outplaying," as in, "You are too good for that horn! You need a more expensive model!"
 

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let me help you out here, allow me to relieve you of the burden of your wallet.

At the age of 14 though, I suppose that the wallet was someone else’s.

The seller was dishonest. Wasn’t helping anyone but himself.
 

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Cannot disagree with any comments above. Yes, "Overplaying" is a term sometimes used - but it's as described by Saxman....it has nothing to do with the notion that a horn 'cannot take' the intensity of a musician's playing.

With that said....I agree with LostConn. You didn't like the sound of the 57G or the Yama you playtested.
But you are happy with the sound of the 67R horn you purchased.
So, as long as your parents (who I assume funded the endeavor) were OK with it....you did fine.

Just keep in mind, for future situations....it was a sales pitch, and a fairly common one.

But no need to think or worry about it any more beyond today....
 

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only on SOTW could people confuse what the OP said with what they meant. This is not a discussion about performance. It is a discussion about gear.

Yes, out playing was what they should have said. But they didn't so I rolled with it.

Let's stay on point people.

Seriously.
 

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only on SOTW could people confuse what the OP said with what they meant. This is not a discussion about performance. It is a discussion about gear.

Yes, out playing was what they should have said. But they didn't so I rolled with it.
No one is criticizing you. The point is just to clarify what the OP is asking. He DOES say "outplay" -- three times, in fact. But he also messes up and throws in "overplay" a couple of times, for no reason. But it's plain from the post as a whole, and from the sales context, that the question is not whether he's playing too much (overplaying). It's whether it's possible for a horn to be unable to handle his mighty playing, at least in the view of the sales rep.
 

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The OP seems to use "outplay" and "overplay" interchangeably. One question is which word did the music store employee use? But it may not matter in the context of telling a potential buyer why the sound of the horn is bad. Whichever word was used, it's still bovine excrement.
 

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The OP seems to use "outplay" and "overplay" interchangeably. One question is which word did the music store employee use? But it may not matter in the context of telling a potential buyer why the sound of the horn is bad. Whichever word was used, it's still bovine excrement.
"Overpay" is the word!
 

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Nobody in the world would have outgrown the technical and sonic qualities of a YAS 480 after 4 years (or in my case ...my life).

I am not questioning the capability to understand this by a 14 years old person, I DO question the morals of the seller.

On the VERY contrary, I have personally seen people in shops telling the person whom wanted to buy a new horn for no goo reason that they didn’t need a new instrument. I have done that too with a guy who came to me to try a few saxophones and there was nothing wrong with his old one, then he insisted that he at least bought a mouthpiece and I told him no again.


In the clarinet world there are people whom seriously tell players that they have blown the life out of a clarinet! They call it blowing it out (to which maybe the sales person would have referred to)

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?78593-old-clarinets-blowing-out
 

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I don'y believe that sheer hours of "blowing" can cause any significant issues, presumably people say that as generally meaning playing hours.

Certainly old saxophones can get worn out over time but I'm sure never completely and unredeemably a write off, unless by that we think of the value of refurbishing to be higher than the value of the instrument. That value can of course be higher than market value if the instrument holds some emotional value to the owner.

This is when the "standard" overhaul that is a repad plus cork/felt and some judicious straightening of things became something that could cost double and involve a lot of swedging/rebuilding of worn parts to get it back to a nice "tight" condition.

Anyone can vastly delay the inevitable wearing out of moving parts by just looking after your instrument. I'm probably guilty of not being very good at that. All it takes to improve the life is very basic cleaning, storing in a case and oiling.

I think we see quite a problem when people think the word "repad" is all an old horn needs, so when you see on ebay what appears to be a bargain because the seller says "all new pads" we may assume a proper overhaul by a competent tech. When it comes to the top end, than it is really not too much of a problem to pay for a "proper" seeing to on a MKVI or BA, which arrives with new pads, but sloppy worn out or stuck keyword (happened to me more than once). But when it's a Trutone alto (at best) then it's a different matter, the proper overhaul is more than the value.
 

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We are not even talking of a “ worn out” saxophone.

OP couldn’t have worn out a YAS 480 unless he used a metal file to play it as a violin!

Frankly speaking I have never seen any saxophone that worn out that it no longer played or could be repaired.

Even Airplanes can be maintained to the point that you can change ALL the parts which wear out .

A saxophone has all parts wearing out that are either serviceable or replaceable. Even if a part would be missing it can be taken from a donor horn OR even made to the purpose !

Even if one exhales any acid compatible with life in his breath I would be very surprised to actually see any “ wear” in any musical instruments, no matter how hard one blows.
 

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Back to the topic, there is a thing where you can’t achieve as much on a given piece of equipment as you could on another. In that sense someone could outplay a piece of equipment. That being said, if you were at that point, you’d sound pretty darn good on that YAS or P Mariaut or any other decent sax.

But I agee with the other posters here, if you sounded better on the horn you got, it’s a better choice. Often professional horns sound better in various ways, so no huge surprise there.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
He used the term "outplay," I apologize for the confusion
 

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it is not so much what he said but what he meant.

In the context I read what you wrote as “ You have OUTGROWN your horn (sic!) and you need to upgrade to something better”

Again, I seriously doubt that anyone can outgrow the technical possibility of a more that well built horn like that, and certainly in 4 years.
 
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