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Hi all, I've been playing through the real book and have run across chords like E7 alt. Can you tell me what that is? In many years of playing guitar I've never run across that...
This is correct. The 9th & the 5th, are BOTH lowered, AND raised. the voicing I like best for an E7(alt),is E, G sharp, C, (really a B sharp), D, and G.The scale is half diminished/half whole tone. See Mark Levines The Jazz Theory Book.wersax said:And it suggests the use of the "altered scale" (7th mode of ascending melodic minor) over the chords mentioned previously. The altered scale that fits the E7 alt chord(s) is: E-F-G-G#-A#-B#-D-E, (spelled in terms of the E chord not the parent Fm scale.)
Funny - I was taught to consider the B-flat (tritone sub) triad over an E7alt, but I guess a C is just as funky!hgiles said:Just play a C major triad over it. Now that's hip!
Let the rhythm section take care of the tritone (G#-D).
Both will work, because they contain the notes of a F melodic minor scale.E is the 7th degree,(which makes it the alt.scale).larry said:Funny - I was taught to consider the B-flat (tritone sub) triad over an E7alt, but I guess a C is just as funky!![]()
Yeah, it presumes that they understand melodic minor harmony........jentone said:I'm glad someone asked this question. My follow-up question is does the rhythm section have to agree on the alteration? Or since the function (dominant) of the chord is the same regardless of alterations, does everything work out so long as one of the chords listed is played?
I've never cared for the Alt.Symbol - It's sort of a guessing game as to what the rhythm guys are going to play.
Theoretically, for an E7b5-I would use the lydian dominant scale, or a whole tone(which I don't like) on this chord. The lydian scale would be: E, F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D, E. I know this also contains the 5th,(and the b5) but sounds fine. I think of this chord as an E7#11, which is the 4th degree of the B melodic minor scale,(not the F scale). For the E7b5b9, or the E7b5b9, you can play an alt. scale, OR a diminished scale,(starting on the half step),as both scales cover all the chord tones.renaissance_man said:No problem, it's actually more simple than you might think. Of course an E7 is a dominant chord (major 3, flat 7). The alt. is short for altered, and implies some kind of modification to the 5 (B, in this case), either flat or sharp. Often, the 9 is also changed along with the 5. So and E7 alt can be any of the following:
E7b5 (E-G#-Bb-D)
E7b5b9 (add F)
E7b5#9 (add G)
E7#5 (E-G#-C-D)
E7#5b9
E7#5#9
Experiment with different voicings/inversions until you find one that you dig. Generally, altered dominant chords are used as the V in a ii-V-i in a minor key, although I've experimented with altered V chords leading to a major I.
Good times.
Good point, The alt. chord is-b5,or#5,ANDjentone said:I'm glad someone asked this question. My follow-up question is does the rhythm section have to agree on the alteration? Or since the function (dominant) of the chord is the same regardless of alterations, does everything work out so long as one of the chords listed is played?
I've never cared for the Alt.Symbol - It's sort of a guessing game as to what the rhythm guys are going to play.
If by "hw-dim" you mean half-whole diminished, it doesn't quite fit the fully altered sound. Alt. dom has b13, or b6, or #5 (whatever you want to call it) and the hw-dim scale has natural 13, or natural 6. That's why the Fully Altered scale (Diminished - Whole Tone, Super Locrian, 7th mode of melodic minor) works perfectly. If you take the fully altered dominant: Root, 3rd, b7th, and add b9,#9,b5,#5, those seven notes make up that Super Locrian scale.hgiles said:I actually think of the Altered dominant chord as being very specific, specifically it is the hw-dim scale.