Sax on the Web Forum banner

What to do when no horn charts are provided on a gig and there's 4 sax players?

17K views 142 replies 38 participants last post by  MartinMusicMan 
#1 ·
Hello,

I'm a professional singer but just got back in to playing my sax (professionally) for the first time. I got lucky
and had a few gigs during COVID with my 5-piece band in which I sang lead and played solo on my sax.
I have a gig in July and August with a big band (not mine) and there will be 4 sax players (bari, 2 tenors, and me on alto)
and drums, keys, bass, guitar. I'm kind of nervous because I'm never played pro on my sax with other sax players in a section
and the band manager said there's no horn charts (EEK!). I'm just wondering what do I play if there are other horn players? Just play
by ear? Play unison for the most part? I'm used to seeing horn players using charts when there's more than 2 horn players.
Any advice?

Genre of music is 50's-90's - blues, rock, soul, funk. pop.

Thanks!
 
#120 · (Edited)
One other thing (not sure if it's been mentioned) but often when there are slightly more complexities to remember and reading charts is not possible or appropriate, we would just make shorthand notes as an aide de memoire (aka crib sheet).

This could be on a pice of paper taped to a monitor wedge, or just written in your hand or other body art that you find convenient for quick reference.

I've done this when there are arrangements I don't already know and there is either very skimpy rehearsal or maybe a tape you have to listen to on the way to the gig or whatever.

So for example if you need a reminder this would be all you might need to for Sea Cruise:

Sea Cruise in C (IV -I - IV - V) F A C D Eb...

So one very quick glance and this gives you the key, chord sequence of horn line, and opning riff. Once you know that th rest sort of takes care of itself.

This saves you the issue of music stands, sheet music etc if it isn't appropriate, also the problem of having sheet music in a specific order only to have scrabble around looking for a chart if the order suddenly changes.
 
#121 ·
One other thing (not sure if it's been mentioned) but often when there are slightly more complexities to remember and reading charts is not possible or appropriate, we would just make shorthand notes as an aide de memoire (aka crib sheet).

So for example if you need a reminder this would be all you might need to for Sea Cruise:

Sea Cruise in C (IV -I - IV - V) F A C D Eb...

So one very quick glance and this gives you the key, chord sequence of horn line, and opening riff. Once you know that the rest sort of takes care of itself.
+1. Yes, I've done this on a few occasions when invited to play a gig with a band I haven't played with before, and all I have is a set list and YouTube a few days prior to the gig. I made some notes on whatever tunes I didn't already know, just as in your example, on a piece of paper that I either kept in my pocket and pulled out for a quick look or placed on the floor at my feet if the lighting was good enough. It worked out just fine.
 
#123 · (Edited)
This is still a great thread but I think it maybe being over-thought a bit. Since this thread was started I’ve had two gigs with a 9pc band (3 horns). The only charts provided are self written and discouraged on stage. All music would be appropriate for theOP’s gig. Set lists are published in advance by a day or three, but it’s “Show Up, Set Up and Play” with no (or limited) rehearsals for this group.
On the first gig, “If Loving You is Wrong” was on the list and when it came up the trumpet player panicked and said, (grumpily). “I charted this but I forgot my chart!”
The bone player asked “What Key.”
I said “A minor - I think…..Don’t worry about it - We’ll do fine”.
…and we did…

Granted - it was a bit tentative at first, but we were loud and proud by 5he second chorus. We even managed to fit the signature horn lines in!

This stuff is not rocket science - it’s music. Do your homework. At a minimum - listen to the songs on the way to the gig. If you’re unsure- play quietly - (or not at all)

Even if you don’t nail the part you should be able to play tasteful notes that fit. There’s only twelve of the damn things and it’s pretty obvious which ones don’t apply in the key of Am…

most importantly- have fun (and scowl at the bass player if things go south!)

Edit: If you don’t belong on stage in a gig like this - decline. Or put on your big boy britches and take the learning experience. There’s nothing wrong with pushing your limits. You’ll learn a lot ifthe other players on the gig are better - including humility. Stick with it and one day you’ll be the one driving the horns
 
#128 ·
All you need is one "Lead" instrument and 3 guy following. Ive had me and another horn at gigs with no rehearsal and we can easily put in harmonized background hits. But the lead has to be defined. thats the issue. Two or three guys throwing stuff in rather than it sound like a section. Dont run to charts, use your ears K
 
#132 ·
The Chicago horns still rehearse.

On the other hand, keep your expectations low enough and you will never be disappointed.

That’s why it’s so exciting (and rare) to hear a tight horn section.
 
#134 ·
Do you mean the intro and all the parts during the vocal? Can you pick out the main melody notes by playing along to the recording? If they can hear the main horn line, I think most people won't care that you're not playing harmony with yourself. You can slow down the youtube video to get the notes. Or use an app like the Amazing Slow Downer. But if your band people want to hear you play a whole horn section, the only way I know to do that is play it on a keyboard with fake horns - which always sounds terrible to real horn players - or record it in a backing track and trigger that. You can't have everything; either a single horn plays a single line or you use electronics to fake a live horn section. I don't know if this helps. If it was me, I'd just learn the single horn line and tell the band this is what you get. And I'd insist on more than one rehearsal.
 
#135 ·
Do you mean the intro and all the parts during the vocal?
Yep, basically all the horns throughout the song, MMM, as in this filtered extract:



It's actually a fun challenge. To help thicken my sound, I'm planning to use two effects pedals in series. The first is a multi-effect that adds a clean chorus, which I'll keep on throughout the song, and can also add an octave down for certain passages.

The second is a harmonizer that allows me to set the key and mode, which I'm still dialing in, and will use for the intro and later parts. Between those three settings, I can adjust the overall register of the fill (e.g. less fake baritone and more fake trumpets), and should be able to give a fair impression of the original arrangement, if not exactly the same chords.

Some judicious dynamics should help to sell it. And the wet sound will only ever be about half as loud as my dry tone, which will hopefully minimize the impact of any feedback or digital artifacts.

Sure, it all sounds a bit synthesized--but then, so did the original. That's kind of its charm as a pop-funk hybrid.
 
#142 ·
Yeah, I have no idea how the track in that particular video was ripped. I only linked it to illustrate the horn parts to be covered--it's all right there. A good learning aid, really--I sometimes isolate tracks using Anytune to learn them, but the results are rarely even that clean.

That said, the original horn hits did have a lot of reverb and an almost lo-fi feel, like they were ripped from a vintage Motown LP, in stark contrast to the then cutting-edge '80s Fairlight synth. There's a really good analysis of the arrangement here that explains how the recording manages to make some very talented session musicians sound synthesized:


My own band isn't afraid to sound synthetic, and likes it when I add harmonies, so I'll likely stick with a mix of simple chorus, an octaver (down 12), and an intelligent harmonizer that knows the key and mode, alternating for different parts of the song. Our keyboardist could do it all himself--he even has a period keytar, which is hilarious. But he's busy singing the lead, and besides, that would sound even less like a horn section than my tenor sweetened with 30% fx. Plus it's a chance to go big on the horn, so why not?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top