[benliner]

Hello
I finally have started working on the bari I bought on eBay. I posted some info about it in the Beuscher forum here
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=65924&highlight=benliner
I want to repair what I can myself before I submit it to my local pro repairer, and have stripped it down , after doing a leak light test, as it wasn't playing very well.
I enclose pics of the worst of the pads, the rest were varying from slightly better to fairly good.
Note that one has a plastic resonator, does this help to date it? How long have plastic resonators been in use? Can any reader date any of the others from their appearance?
What is the safest way of cleaning off the crud?
But one of the really bad ones, actually the small ripped one, had passed the leak light test, which makes me want to ask: If the pad passes the leak light test, but looks old and discloured and uneven, could it be causing sealing problems that the leak light doesn't show?
Also why are some of the pads so non concentric/eccentric with the tone holes, is it because with drawn holes you can't accurately control where the hole is going to come out?
Although I am not an expert I am very thorough when testing with the leak light, I use the musicmedic light in a darkened room
The instrument smells fairly bad and I had to throw out the case, is the smell caused by the pad leather rotting or verdigris in the unaccessible parts of the neck?
In spite of all this I think I got a good deal from the seller. £600 for a Beuscher Bari can't be bad.
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There should be 5 pictures uploaded with this post. Poor quality, I know, not really into pictures, just used a little logitech cam.
I have more pictures, including one of a bent tone hole , which also doesn't seem to leak. If anyone is interested I will post again and upload them. I have gone past the maximum for this post.

 

[Martin Williams]

Your best bet is to replace all the pads. Once they've gone that cruddy, there isnt anything you can really do.

 

[Sigmund451]

Yep, they look shot to me. Time to work overtime!

 

[clarnibass]

You don't necessarily have to change a pad that looks bad. If it seals fine, then why change it? Unless the pad is the cause of the smell. Although I might want to change a pad even if it seals if it is a part of a stack and I'm changing other pads that are linked to it (or if it's a repad). Also, a really old pad might pass the light test but if it has a very deep seat the sides might block the light even if it doesn't seal which is another reason to change it (or at least check better if it seals). You're using the long fluro light? With that light it is sometimes hard to find small leaks because it lights too much around the area you are checking.

 

[griff136]

as the keys are already off - change them

 

[benliner]

Clarnibass, I'm using the musicmedic light, which is a lot of little lights in a flexible tube. Not as bright, but I turn off as much extra light as possible, even turn off the pc monitor screen. Have to close off the other holes sometimes to stop the light from the strip, for really small leaks. Seems to work fine. Did a good job on my tenor, fixing pad timing problems and bent/misaligned keys, but the pads were good on that.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

What is the safest way of cleaning off the crud?

In my experience, just not worth bothering. Replace them if they are covered with crud that doesn't just wipe off.

"... which makes me want to ask: If the pad passes the leak light test, but looks old and discoloured and uneven, could it be causing sealing problems that the leak light doesn't show?"

It is possibly fine, and could possibly be fine for a long time yet. I agree with Clarnibass. Whether you replace or not depends on your budget. However, a hard pad does not have the resilience that it needs in a situation where flexing metal is involved in a linkage. It certainly is a bad recipe to have a hard padded key remotely operating another soft-padded key, whereas the opposite may be OK. Hard might be OK for stand-alone keys if pivots are secure. So it is a case by case issue.

"Also why are some of the pads so non concentric/eccentric with the tone holes, is it because with drawn holes you can't accurately control where the hole is going to come out?"

No. The position of tone holes can be done accurately. Unless the key has been bent, the fault is positioning of the holes and posts with respect to the manufactured geometry of the keys. It is because many (most?) sax manufacturers are pretty scruffy about this sort of detail. pads non-concentric with tone holes tends to affect reliability of sealing, especially as pads harden with use.

"... Although I am not an expert I am very thorough when testing with the leak light, I use the musicmedic light in a darkened room..."

You may find that a single bulb with higher LOCALISED brightness reveals more. I have a fluoro leak light but don't use it. String lights would probably even worse.

"The instrument smells fairly bad and I had to throw out the case, is the smell caused by the pad leather rotting or verdigris in the unaccessible parts of the neck?"

You can probably throw mould and other micro-organisms into the mix.

 

[benliner]

Thanks Gordon, all good points

 

[jbtsax]

There is another repair point of view that is worth mentioning and that is "preventative" maintenance. In our shop when we do a "play condition" on a customer or school instrument, the rule of thumb is whether it looks as if the pad will perform properly for at least a year after the current servicing.

If a pad is currently sealing airtight, but shows excessive age and wear it gets replaced to insure the reliability of the instrument in the coming months. If more than 1/3 of the pads are in that condition or close to it, we decline the repair unless the customer agrees to a full repad.

On saxes, I personally don't like to mix new pads with old hardened pads in keys that must be regulated to close together. In my experience you are just asking for adjustment problems as the new pad settles in. This is another case when a pad that's not leaking presently is replaced to avoid future problems.

John "When in doubt, pull it out" Talcott