[twocircles]

What style(s)/genre(s) of music do you play with your Keilwerth, Couf, or other Keilwerth stencil?

How would you describe your sound? Dark, bright, mellow, dirty, loud, understated, funky, buzzy? You name it.

I am a soprano-only player, however, I ask for each Keilwerth-made horn you have regardless of “voice." I am curious if the perception that Keilwerth is primarily a jazz horn holds true for the way its owners use it.

I thought about making this a poll, but I’m not sure if I want to limit the genres and timbre descriptions. Maybe if patterns develop I can add one.

 

[twocircles]

Oh, I should answer myself.

Soprano - 1983 Keilwerth Toneking stencil for Schenkelaars.

Mostly classical and traditional style music, but I have started to foray into basic jazz.

My sound is focused, clear and pure, but my horn adds something, a complexity, or something hard to describe but extremely appealing.

I think I am something of an anomaly.

 

[twocircles]

Oh, I should answer myself.

Soprano - 1983 Keilwerth Toneking stencil for Schenkelaars.

Mostly classical and traditional style music, but I have started to foray into basic jazz.

My sound is focused, clear and pure, but my horn adds something, a complexity, or something hard to describe but extremely appealing.

I think I am something of an anomaly.

This query didn't gain much traction last year. I thought we might bust or confirm perceptions.

A few things have changed in the past year. Genre-wise, I am still exploring basic jazz and related genres, as well as religious and some classical music.

I am practicing more as part of my COVID recovery. I am using softer reeds, and gradually increasing in strength as I gain breath control, as long as I can keep my embouchure pretty relaxed throughout the range of the sax. I think my prior trumpet experience conditioned me to tighten up as I go higher in pitch. I am taking this opportunity to de-condition that. This has changed my sound quite a bit, but other aspects have higher priority.

 

[mmichel]

What style(s)/genre(s) of music do you play with your Keilwerth, Couf or other stencil?

How would you describe your sound? Dark, bright, mellow, dirty, loud, understated, funky, buzzy? You name it.

I am a soprano-only player, however, I ask for each Keilwerth you have regardless of "voice." I am curious if the perception that Keilwerth is primarily a jazz horn holds true for the way its owners use it.

I thought about making this a poll, but I'm not sure if I want to limit the genres and timbre descriptions. Maybe if patterns develop I can add one.

I have three Keilwerths (S/A/T). The soprano and tenor are modern SX90(R)s, while the alto is a 1980 Toneking.

On saxophones, I play jazz almost exclusively (I do enjoy and play other forms of music, I just play them on different instruments).

I think of my sound on all three horns as dark-ish (for jazz), but with some edge. It's hard to describe one's sound though. I've uploaded a few recordings here on SOTW in the recent past, so you can listen for yourself and decide how to describe my sound:

• There are recorded examples of my sound on the Toneking alto at the bottom of this post.
• There's a recorded example of my sound on the SX90 soprano in this post.

Strangely, I don't seem to have uploaded any examples of my tenor playing in the past few years, so I don't have an example to point you to. I'll have to remedy that soon.

 

[TinyC]

I play mostly basic jazz stuff on my EX 90II tenor--I've been playing about a year and a half and I'm kind of after a Basie-era Lester Young sound. I mostly use an Otto Link VS Tone Edge, so it's relatively dark sound.

But, I've started incorporating the tenor into a couple of rock bands in which I play guitar. I recently picked up a Jumbo Java for that, and it's not as crazy bright as I expected. I worried that it might be too much, but it really just sounds louder, not so much excessively brighter.

I'm sorry I don't have recordings readily available for a comparison, but I'll try to make some that I'm not too ashamed of and upload them!

 

[bandmommy]

Alto and tenor are 'Martin'. An Indiana and a Pan American that's identical to an Indiana.
I play whatever I feel like playing and they sound like a typical Martin sax.
The brand name engraved on the bell doesn't dictate what genre I can, or can not play.

 

[mmichel]

I am practicing more as part of my COVID recovery. I am using softer reeds, and gradually increasing in strength as I gain breath control, as long as I can keep my embouchure pretty relaxed throughout the range of the sax. I think my prior trumpet experience conditioned me to tighten up as I go higher in pitch. I am taking this opportunity to de-condition that. This has changed my sound quite a bit, but other aspects have higher priority.

I missed the fact that you had caught COVID and are now recovering. You have my sincere condolences.

I'm glad that you're still with us, and that you've been able to return to playing.

 

[cannontk]

I have a nickel silver SX90R tenor that I played for small group jazz, big bands, rock/pop groups, and a whole lot of New Orleans brass band. When I first bought the horn I loved it, it was my main horn for seven years. I recently switched to a TM Custom because I wanted a bit more focused rather than spread sound.

 

[twocircles]

I missed the fact that you had caught COVID and are now recovering. You have my sincere condolences.

I'm glad that you're still with us, and that you've been able to return to playing.

I think I might prefer congratulations. It was a near miss, but I am playing a sax rather than a harp. There are many who were not so fortunate. What's a few months or even a year of recovery time in comparison, and practicing my sax is part of my therapy.

Thanks for your kind thoughts though.

 

[twocircles]

Alto and tenor are 'Martin'. An Indiana and a Pan American that's identical to an Indiana.
I play whatever I feel like playing and they sound like a typical Martin sax.
The brand name engraved on the bell doesn't dictate what genre I can, or can not play.

The question is can you say the same thing about Keilwerth saxes, since this is the Keilwerth/Couf forum? Anyone could play anything, but do they on a Keilwerth or Couf? So far, only predominantly jazz players have responded, except for myself.

 

[Serafino]

Since jazz is a broad category in terms of what tone can work depending on the venue and intention, I think the real potential restricting venue is classical, and based on my reading I would guess that if we don't see Keilwerths in classical it is probably because of how they blend with other instruments rather than concern with their intrinsic tonal tendencies from a solo playing aspect. It would be interesting to survey college classical sax teachers to get the skinny on that.

 

[cannontk]

I think we don't see Keilwerth's in the classical world much is because of how much of the classical "gear world" is dictated and directed by university professors. I've heard too many stories of kids being told they need to buy "x" horn for a studio.

I'd be interested to hear more classical pieces played on Keilwerths. To me they have an inherently darker tone which I imagine would lend itself well to classical sax rep.

The different keywork may also contribute to less representation in the classical world - I know it took some getting used to the larger pearls and keyboard layout when I first bought my tenor, but it's as comfortable as my other horns.

 

[datsaxman]

Did a recording project with a Chicago Blues guy last weekend. Tenor on four tracks, Couf Superba I alto on two.

 

[bandmommy]

The question is can you say the same thing about Keilwerth saxes, since this is the Keilwerth/Couf forum? Anyone could play anything, but do they on a Keilwerth or Couf? So far, only predominantly jazz players have responded, except for myself.

Well excuse me all to Hell.
The last part of the thread starter says "or other stencil".
Heaven forbid someone who plays an "other stencil" should post a reply...

 

[Serafino]

Well excuse me all to Hell.
The last part of the thread starter says "or other stencil".
Heaven forbid someone who plays an "other stencil" should post a reply...

Why the chip on the shoulder? I thought your first reply here was surprisingly challenging. OP's is a legitimate question and doesn't cast any negativity on other makes. Keilwerth made a lot of stencils incidentally and has a reputation for a very characteristic tone, so the question of what people use that for is definitely worth digging into.

 

[bandmommy]

Why the chip on the shoulder? I thought your first reply here was surprisingly challenging. OP's is a legitimate question and doesn't cast any negativity on other makes. Keilwerth made a lot of stencils incidentally and has a reputation for a very characteristic tone, so the question of what people use that for is definitely worth digging into.

Hey, I shared my experience playing a brand with a similar 'reputation for a characteristic tone'.
As a result I was basically told that this area is for Keilwerth and Couf players ONLY.
Still, the name on the bell does not dictate what genre you are allowed to play. Think about it.

 

[Serafino]

Hey, I shared my experience playing a brand with a similar 'reputation for a characteristic tone'.
As a result I was basically told that this area is for Keilwerth and Couf players ONLY.

So like you, Twocircles depended on context to get his meaning across i.e. that he didn't see how your post related to his intended topic. You relied on the context of 'everyone knows Martins have a characteristic tone' to get your intended meaning across. I confess the connection was not obvious to me at the time although I totally get your point now. Twocircles, I am sure, did not mean that this subforum is only for Keilwerth players.

Still, the name on the bell does not dictate what genre you are allowed to play. Think about it.

I don't have to think about it, on the surface what you're saying is very obvious--people can do whatever they want. But that's not really the issue. The issue is: what choices are players actually making? What are they doing with this freedom of choice? What's the trend? OP is trying to learn something about how Keilwerths actually get used, and it may well be that classical saxophone students are influenced in a different direction.

 

[bandmommy]

So like you, Twocircles depended on context to get his meaning across i.e. that he didn't see how your post related to his intended topic. You relied on the context of 'everyone knows Martins have a characteristic tone' to get your intended meaning across. I confess the connection was not obvious to me at the time although I totally get your point now. Twocircles, I am sure, did not mean that this subforum is only for Keilwerth players.

I don't have to think about it, on the surface what you're saying is very obvious--people can do whatever they want. But that's not really the issue. The issue is: what choices are players actually making? What are they doing with this freedom of choice? What's the trend? OP is trying to learn something about how Keilwerths actually get used, and it may well be that classical saxophone students are influenced in a different direction.

You're missing the point about "OTHER STENCILS".
The OP did not specify Keilworth/Couf only stencils.
The Indiana is not always considered a 'true' Martin, but rather a second line or Martin 'stencil'.
It's so nice of you to defend his not exactly nice response to a 'misunderstanding' of a vague reference to what exact stencils could be commented on.
Don't want unrelated comparisons? Don't be vague!

 

[datsaxman]

1) This is posted in the Keilwerth subforum.

2) OP says ... I ask for each Keilwerth you have regardless of “voice."

Seemed like the OP was looking specifically for Keilwerth.

 

[mmichel]

Since jazz is a broad category in terms of what tone can work depending on the venue and intention, I think the real potential restricting venue is classical, and based on my reading I would guess that if we don't see Keilwerths in classical it is probably because of how they blend with other instruments rather than concern with their intrinsic tonal tendencies from a solo playing aspect. It would be interesting to survey college classical sax teachers to get the skinny on that.

I agree with this, but I think that the "blending" concern is almost certainly a non-issue. One of the characteristics that people frequently ascribe to Keilwerths is a "spread" (rather than "focused") sound. I'll admit that I don't know exactly what that means, but it seems like a "spread" rather than "focused" quality would be associated with less of a tendency to "stick out" among a blend of instruments.

I think it's essentially all based on perception of the brand and what classical instructors/professors dictate. Moreover, the perception is likely to get pushed further in that direction now that Keilwerth is part of the Buffet group (i.e., due to the need for market differentiation and the push to re-establish Buffet saxophones in general, and the Senzo in particular, as the choice for classical players).