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20181116_122539.jpg 20181116_122504.jpg 20181116_122523.jpg 20181119_000223[1].jpg

so this is an instrument i bought recently. its a 1932 alfonso rampone lindell. it needs some work i made a list.
6 attachments (by that i mean the thing that attach say key guards to the instrument or things like that)
Eb and C keys and guards
2 springs.
repaded
octave key
relaqoured
keys need adjusted.
neck attachment needs shrunken
padding on the keys to stop metal on metal contact.
repainted? (whenever it was new it was all white as indicated by white paint in nooks and crannies on the body)
im not asking if its smart to fix it because i already know that it isn't (but i'm going to do it anyway) i was wondering how i should do it.
 

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White? I don’t think so. That is possible residue from brasso or stuff like that.

You are right, fixing is not worth it. There are simply to many things to do. If you don’t have any experince and you intend to do this you will find that the number of things to do a way above the capability of anyone attempting this as first rebuild.

You don’t wan to shrink the receiver but you want to expand the tenon.How do you know it is a 1932? This is a certainly later design.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
White? I don’t think so. That is possible residue from brasso or stuff like that.

You are right, fixing is not worth it. There are simply to many things to do. If you don’t have any experince and you intend to do this you will find that the number of things to do a way above the capability of anyone attempting this as first rebuild.

You don’t wan to shrink the receiver but you want to expand the tenon.How do you know it is a 1932? This is a certainly later design.
well i guess 1. i dont plan on doing it myself. i was just wondering if i should get it overhauled or just playable. 2. im just basing off of what this guy said. no i dont know if its a 32 specifically but its 30s. http://csax.net/2009/03/20/a-lindell-tenor-saxophone-an-enigma/ and 3. yes that is also a possibility. ive never used brasso or anything like that so i didnt know about that.
 

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If you are not going to do this yourself the amount of work that this horn needs even to be brought only to playing state will greatly exceed the value of a similar one in playing state.

Alfonso Rampone horns are not rare nor they are particularly sought after, I am sure you can buy one for less than this will cost to merely have it playing, let alone a complete restoration.

The horn you quote is an earlier version ( wire guards) than yours (sheet metal guard). Alfonso Rampone started his company in 1934 , so you can ’t have a horn with metal sheet guard and dating two years before he opened the factory.

All manners of liquid metal polish leave a white residue when used for a quick and dirty job like this horn appears to have received prior to selling.
 

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It truly isn't as old as '32, as Milandro noted, the sheet metal keyguards indicate that. I have refurbed Lindells both with wire and sheet metal guards, and the sheet guard ones appeared to me to be '50's-60's-ish horns based upon their other details.

"Rare" is a relative term.
It can mean "you don't see many around these parts (US)".....or "of the # of saxophones around, not many are Alphonse" ...or "Alphonse's factory didn't produce a whole lotta saxophones" .....in which case that definition of 'rare' would be true.

But if "Rare" takes on the intimation of 'valuable' or 'sought after'...then your horn doesn't meet the second definition.
As Milandro notes.....an Alphonse Tenor in good playing shape has a pretty low market value (around $400-500 these days, maybe).
It is also quite possible if someone posted a Lindell Tenor in good shape on eBay for $400-500...it would sit on eBay for many months with no bites.

Now....in regards to your list, and the future of this sax:

1) the BIG issue is the missing Low Eb and C keys (and their posts). Saxes, especially vintage ones, do not use 'generic' sorta replacement parts. The specifications of parts are specific to the horn's mfr. And this horn's mfr. no longer exists.
Soooooo...this is a challenge.
If I had it in MY shop, I could likely do it. Only because I have around 25 cadaver 'parts' horns which I can try various C and Eb keys/posts from and likely find a pair that will work (not sure what I'd do about finding red rollers, however - perhaps a bead shop ? (no, not a joke, I mean it) ;))

But given YOU do not have 25 parts horns, I am not sure how I would proceed if I were you. The only option, I would say, would be to find a tech who feels they can match up those keys for you (or you can send me the horn and I'll try my best).

2) Finish - Let it Be What it Is. Forget relacquering (it costs $2000 for a Tenor, professionally....and any spray on home-job is gonna look really, really horrible within a couple months). While just having it chem bathed and hand-polished will make it look like a nice ol' vintage horn.

3) Neck - the neck fits loosely ? Does it appear to be the original neck ? If it is a really bad fit, it could be it isn't the original neck. If it is original, then again as MIandro notes, the neck tenon would need to be expanded, likely. But if the neck is not original and the fit is very loose...it could well be that in order for that neck to fit, a new tenon may be required.
But before we get to that, one would want to see if at least the neck seems to intone the horn body decently...which means wrapping the existing tenon in some plumbers teflon tape until it fits snugly in the socket, and playtesting a few notes in different registers using an electronic tuner.

4) Octave key - not sure exactly what the issue is here. Do you mean the neck has no octave key ? That isn't a difficult fix for an experienced tech, or a headstrong amateur who knows how to soft solder - because the Neck Octave Key IS actually one of the FEW pieces of an old sax which can be replaced with a modern, generic part (a Yamaha part, for example...or a key and saddle off of a cheap chinese eFlay neck).

BUT, if you mean the octave MECHANISM on the horn body....THEN, again...see comment 1). Because octave mechs are as individual to different horn makes as can be. So it might require a complete octave mech 'transplant' from a donor sax, similar to what would need to be done in 1) for the spat keys.
Doable...but again you need some source parts horns to find a suitable match...AND you need to find someone who can soft-solder well.

5) Repad - from appearances, the least of your challenges. Pads, of course, are not maker-specific and a repad is relatively straightforward - it is even the kind of thing a DIY novice can take a shot at (there are kits and manuals available online, as well as Youtube vid tutorials).

6) Missing guards and feet - no huge deal, again, HERE is where generic modern parts or donor horn parts would work just fine.

Whew...well...YOU asked ;).

So there are my suggestions.

IF this horn came into my shop and the owner wanted to do what you wanted to do, I would charge around $500-600 and it would take me about 4 weeks to turn it around, just because of the missing keys stuff.
Most techs would charge more like $1000+, easily....and they would badmouth this horn something ferocious (although one in a complete state and playable is NOT a BAD instrument).

Soooo....IF one wanted to do this themselves, I would say the spat keys, the neck fitting, the new keyguards, and possibly the octave key situation is beyond the means of 95% of novices...meaning one would have to 'sub' that work out to a professional tech and that work, plus a chem bath, would probably run around $400-500 (I'd do it for $300).

While the cleaning, repadding, recorking/re-felting/lubing/etc. IS something a dedicated novice/weekend repair warrior could try their own hand at, thus potentially 'saving' them around $300-400 over having a tech do that scope as well (although consider that the quality of the repad, etc would not match that of a pro repair person; and the novice would likely have to return to his work repeatedly to make tweaks, partial re-do's, and adjustments as the horn settled and likely went out of regulation a few times...but still, a very good learning experience).

So its conceivable that an alternate Rx for this horn could be that: sub out the work which is beyond a novice repairer, and then take a shot at the rest yourself (or perhaps some home repairer/tinkerer that you know ?)
 

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Take it to the local metal recyclers - they're always on the look out for brass. Then buy yourself a 2nd hand Yamaha YAS23. You'll save yourself time and money, and can move on to more profitable tasks such as practicing and performing.
 

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Alfonso Rampone was one of the most prolific stencil makers of the time when it operated and sold under countless names. The company, like the neighboring Rampone & Cazzani (distantly related families uit not the same), employed dozens of people and produced thousands of saxophones a year.

You are not the first person to come here and ask for advice and information and refute it when it was provided because it doesn’t fit what you seem to already been convinced of.

As for Alfonso Rampone being rare saxophones...

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?81456-Help-Please-Alfonso-Rampone-Alto-History

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?225490-Alonso-Rampone

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?17371-Rampone-Quarno-Novaro

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?219751-Is-this-a-Conn

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?12069-A-Rampone-Soprano

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?3761-What-horn-is-this

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?108028-Is-this-pinky-table-familiar

and so on....
 

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And when people do list instruments that are alfonso many of them with "!!" Marks after it which seems to suggest that they are rare.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/punctuation/exclamation-mark-point

Exclamation mark/Exclamation point (!)

The main use of the exclamation mark is to end sentences that express:

  • an exclamation: Ow! That hurt! Hello! How are you?
  • direct speech that represents something shouted or spoken very loudly: ‘Look up there!’ she yelled.
  • something that amuses the writer: Included on the list of banned items was 'crochet hooks'!
  • An exclamation mark can also be used in brackets after a statement to show that the writer finds it funny or ironic: She says she’s stopped feeling insecure (!) since she met him.
 

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What a coincidence. I use these words in this exact sequence all the time

....(!!!!!)
I'm usually the other way round "Hey, how you doin'? Ow, that hurt!!!"

Still waiting for

Ow, that hurt!! Must be be an original lacquer rare holy grail saxophone!!!!!!!

(With apologies to OP, we do really wish you the best with this interesting old Italian saxophone, I have rather a soft spot for them)
 

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But given YOU do not have 25 parts horns, I am not sure how I would proceed if I were you.


In my opinion, he is 1/25th of the way there already. :D

saxesarecool, What is your motivation for restoring this horn?
 

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I don’t know OP motivation other than he might have found this at a garage sale, paid very little and thought it may have been a gem.

It’s a pattern that we’ve seen replicated time and time again. Similarly the answer seems to follow a pattern too. Once an horn is shown to the membership and the majority have been commenting that it is a cheap horn that needs a lot of work and in some cases (not this one) is even a horn with a double octave key and /or high pitch, they get defensive against the better judgement and honest , expert, advise which they came to ask.

Again, would this be your father’s precious possession which he played and treasured all his life , I would spend any money to have it brought to its former glory. Money would be of no object or concern.

In any other case this is and stays a cheap, not rare nor sought after, middle of the road old (and not ancient) saxophone made in large numbers by a company specialized in stenciling, missing parts and in very poor state.

But one can only bring one to the water.
 
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