[STracey]

Hi,
This is my first post, though I read through the forum each day and have been for quite a while.
I play a tenor Yamaha 82Z and a Jody Jazz HR.
However, I've been looking to get a new sax and have pretty much decided on a Vintage Barone (due to all the positive comments and price).
Then main question I have is: how it Barone better than other Taiwanese made saxes? Apart from the better neck, what makes it different?
Thanks for reading.
Regards, Steve

 

[swperry1]

What is it that you dislike about your Z?

 

[artstove]

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines - if you have an 82Z, why are you looking for a new horn? GAS attack?

 

[STracey]

Getting another sax is my reward to myself for finishing a music degree. A vintage sax was my first thought (a Zephyr), but then came onto the Barones.
I like the 82z and am going to keep it (for the moment), though it is quite bright.

 

[evan1]

STRACEY, IMO opinion, and I own four Barones (I am an ex Selmer SA 80 Serie II Owner) the Barones apart from how well they play in terms of tambre and intonation, provide incredible value. As well as the neck, you get a contoured case, and a choice of a PB Mouthpiece, which I believe to be for tenor the PB Vintage or the New PB SoundMaster. Add to that and incredible array of finishes, plus Phil’s personal and customized approach to his customers which big retailers can’t match, really you can’t go wrong. What finish where you considering?

 

[magical pig]

I personally wouldn't mail order a saxophone from anyone but one of the big retail stores and even less trust reviews from an online forum. Your Z is very probably a better saxophone than a Barone for several reasons: most techs have extensive experience with Yamaha's and they like working on them because they are easy to deal with, Yamaha has been around for way longer than any Taiwanese maker meaning better expertise and better support in the long run, etc...

If you find your horn bright but like the way it responds, its intonation, just use a different mouthpiece or even better, a different reed cut, they will both make much more difference. There's a pro player I've played with a few times who uses a Z and he gets the most beautiful dark tone on it.

Now if the ergonomics of your Z is a problem, if you feel it lacks core etc, yeah just get a new horn. But how will you be sure you'll like your new horn if you mail-order it?

FWIW Barone necks are made in Taiwan as well to the best of my knowledge. What make them special is, in part, Phil Barone himself and his ability to hype his product.

 

[STracey]

Thanks Evan1, that's what I was after.
By the images on Phil's website and other threads here, the finish I'd like is either Antique Bronze or Vintage Bare Brass.

 

[evan1]

Thanks Evan1, that's what I was after.
By the images on Phil's website and other threads here, the finish I'd like is either Antique Bronze or Vintage Bare Brass.

The antique bronze is an incredible finish IMO. I have the Satin Laquer which totally blows me away. have you seen that finish ?

 

[daigle65]

Thanks Evan1, that's what I was after.....

So you were just looking for some validation, your mind was already made up.
If you really want a Barone go ahead, but I suggest you read magical pig's post again, it makes a lot of sens, especially the part about online reviews.

 

[Grumps]

... and even less trust reviews from an online forum.

Forget it. He's too far gone. It seems all you read here lately are folks ready to buy solely based upon what they've read rather than what they've tried. My guess would be they've already written their favorable reviews in their heads before their new equipment is even delivered.

 

[STracey]

I personally wouldn't mail order a saxophone from anyone but one of the big retail stores and even less trust reviews from an online forum. Your Z is very probably a better saxophone than a Barone for several reasons: most techs have extensive experience with Yamaha's and they like working on them because they are easy to deal with, Yamaha has been around for way longer than any Taiwanese maker meaning better expertise and better support in the long run, etc...

If you find your horn bright but like the way it responds, its intonation, just use a different mouthpiece or even better, a different reed cut, they will both make much more difference. There's a pro player I've played with a few times who uses a Z and he gets the most beautiful dark tone on it.

Now if the ergonomics of your Z is a problem, if you feel it lacks core etc, yeah just get a new horn. But how will you be sure you'll like your new horn if you mail-order it?

FWIW Barone necks are made in Taiwan as well to the best of my knowledge. What make them special is, in part, Phil Barone himself and his ability to hype his product.

Cheers magical pig. Not sure whether or not to believe given your signature, heh.

I know an online review isn't really the best thing to go on, but the great number of them that agree make a pretty good case.

Also, if it's all in the ability to hype the product, why are there people who swear by them, and own 4 as in Evan1's case? (though you may be referring to the neck only)

 

[STracey]

I live in Western Australia. It's about 1500 miles from the next city so it's a little difficult to try saxes before you buy them.
Pretty much the ONLY option for something like this is to buy it off the internet.

 

[evan1]

Good point. At least i have a solid point of reference as far as equipment and 23 years playing. And heres some clips on my Barone Soprano for you so you have some form of context of who you are speaking to:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?155990-Barone-Soprano-Clips-At-Last-!

 

[MartinMusicMan]

I've been accused of being a Barone shill on this forum before, but I would agree with other comments here about why get a Barone? You have a good horn. Your "reward" to yourself is another horn. Why not get an excellent vintage horn for about the same amount of money? If you think your Z is bright, I don't think the Barone will be darker. Besides, as others say, change the mouthpiece and reed set up. Many people here even think the Rovner ligs are not good because they're too dark. Try one of them.

Yes, I got a Barone but because the price was right and Phil has a return policy. It was a new horn for the price of a good vintage horn. And I got it as a backup horn. I like my Barone. I also like Martins. If I was buying a new horn to be my main horn, I'd want to play it first. I'd also want to play a vintage horn first. I recently got a vintage Martin alto on SOTW without playing it first, but the price was good and the seller agreed to accept a return if I was unhappy with it.

Moral: try before you buy, unless you get a good price and a return policy.

Edit: I just saw your post.

I live in Western Australia. It's about 1500 miles from the next city so it's a little difficult to try saxes before you buy them.
Pretty much the ONLY option for something like this is to buy it off the internet.

OK, so you've got a point there.

 

[magical pig]

Not sure whether or not to believe given your signature, heh.

Hehe, this was given to me by another forum fwiw. In my book corrupting minds is a good thing. :bluewink:

why are there people who swear by them

Self-conviction is a strong thing. Lack of experience and expertise is another one. (no offense to Evan1 or anyone in particular). You can witness this on a daily basis on other forums populated with gear heads. That doesn't necessarily mean I'd be better equipped to make such a recommendation either by the way. On top of all these, I've read some great reviews of the Z but it seems you're not so in love with it. See what I'm getting at?

But I don't want to start yet another flame war about this, and if you've read the Barone threads you must have witnessed strong opinions on both sides of the fence. What I'd humbly advise you to do, if you haven't done so already, is to do your homework and cross reference who said what and their opinions, participation or expertise in other posts, go back to when Phil introduced his horns on the market, check the multiple mouthpiece threads he's started to announce new models or new batches and make up your mind considering all of these.

BUT, Barone or any other brand, the real issue here is to buy without the opportunity to take the horn for a ride. You may very well love the Barone however --->

I live in Western Australia. It's about 1500 miles from the next city so it's a little difficult to try saxes before you buy them.
Pretty much the ONLY option for something like this is to buy it off the internet.

----> well that sucks but it also means you'd have to pay huge shipping fees to get your Barone and if you decide to return it you'd have to pay them again.

If you find your horn too bright, check Matt Otto (he's a member here). I think it would fair to describe his tone as leaning toward the dark side and I believe he plays a Z.

Also, the Jody Jazz HR are anything but dark - like a good rubber Link or even STM would be.

 

[Currawong]

I don't know whether Phil Barones are better than other saxophones made in Taiwan. Maybe they are, maybe they are the same as others. As it happens, I also have a YTS-82z, and when wanted something different, I opted for a Phil Barone Vintage tenor. I am not disappointed at all. It seemed to be easier to play than the Yamaha, but lately I have used the Yamaha much more. Also, it was much to find a mouthpiece for the PB than for the Yamaha. I doubt that they are aimed at the same market.

One definite attraction about Phil Barones is their price. Postage was not expensive. It was sent by USPS. The package meets Australia Post regulations. If it came with one of the other carriers, it would of course be different story. The whole thing cost me less than I would have paid for a new YTS-275.

 

[Wilbur Weltklang]

Well I don't live in W.A. (I did spend 18 years of my life there though). I have a Barone Vintage Tenor in vintage bare-brass, approaching one year now.
Reason why I chose this path: I don't have access to the wide range of horns as the rest of the world to casually browse and if you do, there's the 'paying through the nose' in regards to price tags.
After extensive time being a member on this forum, I read again and again from many obviously satisfied customers that Barone represented a quality product from a bloke with a respected history in making custom mouthpieces.
I do own a '57 Selmer VI alto and would certainly consider purchasing another Barone if it came to performing in public with it. (and of course make a first hand comparison)
Personally, I don't buy the ' buy vintage' as they were the golden years. Most of the saxophone 'stars' regularly upgraded their horns to the next level.
The manufacture of saxophones has improved over the years and therefore I was sold on getting something with modern keywork.
My Barone arrived with no problems whatsoever. I've had to make minor adjustments due to cork wear etc...always helps to get some in depth knowledge regards to the workings.
all in all, I'd have no problems pulling the trigger on another Barone.
cheers, Mark.
P.S. Of course having a quality P.B. mouthpiece included is nothing to sneer over.
Mine's a definite back-up to my Barone 'Jazz'.

 

[koumou]

I play a Barone Vintage alto and tenor. I live on a Greek Island, so there was no way I could try them before I bought them. I bought the alto first, that replaced a Yamaha YAS275, and almost a year later I bought the tenor that replaced a Yamaha YTS62ii. The Barones are perfectly good and well made horns. The Yamaha's though,are of better quality. I preferred the palm and side key positions on the Yams. On the other hand I prefer the sound I get from my Barones, which is darker, and find that they are more mouthpiece friendly, especially the tenor as opposed to my YTS62. If you ask me now, I'll say I am happy I made the change, but then again the Yamahas were more than enough for my needs and playing ability.
If you want a Barone Vintage go ahead and get one, it's a nice horn and excellent value for money. But don't get rid of your Z in a hurry...

 

[CONN-hunter]

Then main question I have is: how it Barone better than other Taiwanese made saxes?

Hi Steve,

greetings to Australia. Great country.

Steve, there are other great Taiwanese horns out there. I made my experiences with two other brands and I still have them.
A CE Winds professional Soprano and a L&C (Lien Cheng) tenor sax, both professional made in Taiwan.

the built quality of both brands are very good being the L&C in one level of finishing with P.Mauriat. Both brands excellent in sound.

PB must not be better than others but it is for sure not worst. Specially the Vintage model (which I didn,t play yet)

I am sure that the PB is now a well established brand and I,d buy one anytime.
The sound of the vintage is really amazing (from the sound clips I,ve heard)
The finishes are fancy and so attractive. specially the dark amber which resembles my old CONN Chu berry (which is still in captivity by Lance Burton after almost 2 and half years)

I think the PB Vintage would represent a nice alternation in sound compared to your great (thin) sounding Yamaha Z82, which has the best ergos.
You will also realize that the PB will feel much different in your hands than the Yamaha, which has the best play comfort ever in my opinion.

You,re gonna be happy with a Vintage PB.

 

[Buck Laughlin]

I know an online review isn't really the best thing to go on, but the great number of them that agree make a pretty good case.

How many online reviews of this brand have you read on sites other than SOTW? How many people have you encountered away from SOTW that have even heard of the brand? The brand definitely has a following here on SOTW. And, perhaps not coincidentally, Phil Barone has established quite a "presence" here on SOTW. I wouldn't go so far as to call it "hero worship," but sometimes the brand loyalty here on SOTW strikes me as something more akin to a "club" mentality -- subjective enthusiasm rather than objective evaluation. They even had an interactive Google Map thread called "Where in the world is your Barone?" Several of these enthusiasts are kids who seem to be cheering on their brand just like they would their school's sports teams.

Don't get me wrong -- the Barone brand may well represent the very best of saxophones on the market today. I don't know. I've never had an opportunity to try one. But didn't Phil Barone himself write on his own website that all Taiwanese horns are essentially the same? In which case, what might make it "better" would be price -- if they are, in fact, still the cheapest.

It sounds like you want to buy one, so do it. If you don't, you'll always wonder if you should have. Besides, I bet you'll love it. Who wouldn't love a good saxophone?