[Lasten]

Hello everyone! I'm new in this Forum so this post Is my start here👋

I managed to get this Selmer USA Bari Sax in very Bad shape. It probably was property of an army big band, based in the Netherlands. The only safe Information I have is the serial number, which is 1031056. Can anyone tell me more about it? I wonder what model it is and if it would be worth a general overhaul🤔

 

[Pete Thomas]

It looks to me like it definitely needs a service and regulation - looking at the differing key heights on the bell. Whether it needs an overhaul is hard to say just from those for images. We can't tell much about the condition just from those four photos.

 

[theneighbordubh]

My guess is that it probably sounds a bit like a Buescher 400 with a cylindrical low A extension

 

[Lasten]

It looks to me like it definitely needs a service and regulation - looking at the differing key heights on the bell. Whether it needs an overhaul is hard to say just from those for images. We can't tell much about the condition just from those four photos.

Thanks for your quick response! Yes, it absolut needs a service. The main thing I wonder about is, what kind of model this Sax is and how old it is so I maybe can find out something about the Sound quality.

 

[1saxman]

Selmer USA bought out Buescher in about 1963 and began to make several lines based on the Buescher design; mainly Buescher 400 and Selmer USA. The low A baritone has a great sound and the low A is the most powerful I have witnessed.

 

[1saxman]

BTW, that one looks pretty good - much better than most. I'd say it would be worth fixing up but you may want to start out with it with minor work, like removing the dent in the neck, replacing any bad pads and fixing any leaks. You can clean and oil it yourself, and in that process you will spot some areas for attention, like missing corks/felts, loose screws, extra movement of keys on rods, etc., either for fixing yourself or taking to the shop. One thing on old baritones is the build-up inside the upper loop, and sometimes foreign objects get stuck in there. You want to at least run a swab through the loop to make sure its open - may have to temporarily remove a key on the loop to do this.

 

[lostcircuits]

BTW, that one looks pretty good - much better than most. I'd say it would be worth fixing up but you may want to start out with it with minor work, like removing the dent in the neck, replacing any bad pads and fixing any leaks. You can clean and oil it yourself, and in that process you will spot some areas for attention, like missing corks/felts, loose screws, extra movement of keys on rods, etc., either for fixing yourself or taking to the shop. One thing on old baritones is the build-up inside the upper loop, and sometimes foreign objects get stuck in there. You want to at least run a swab through the loop to make sure its open - may have to temporarily remove a key on the loop to do this.

Ditto, pads are usually pretty good on baris and the main thing to look at is the goose neck. Check the spit valve as well. I would start with the regulation and checking for leaks instead of jumping into a complete overhaul. Make sure the rods are straight and free-moving and the springs are good. If the action seems a bit too hard (too much spring tension), you can fix that later, once you got used to the horn and have a better feeling for the mass that you are moving.

 

[bandmommy]

Selmer USA bought out Buescher in about 1963 and began to make several lines based on the Buescher design; mainly Buescher 400 and Selmer USA. The low A baritone has a great sound and the low A is the most powerful I have witnessed.

Not ALL Buescher 400's are post buy out Selmer made horns.
My 400 is made by Buescher and has all of the original snaps still in place. 😉

 

[JayeLID]

Thanks for your quick response! Yes, it absolut needs a service. The main thing I wonder about is, what kind of model this Sax is and how old it is so I maybe can find out something about the Sound quality.

It DID have some model # associated with it, the Selmer USA Low A's...although the number escapes me now.

It is simply commonly referred to as a "Selmer USA Baritone".

Most folks know what you mean when you say that.

MASSIVE tone...these came from a Buescher design pedigree, as noted by others.

The main drawback for some is the pinky table...it is basically a Bundy 1 pinky table, meaning the C# particularly, as it engages the G# touch, is really stiff. Tweaking spring tensions only improve it so much.
I have actually taken to partially removing the tab from the G# so the C# touch no longer engages the G#....and this improves the response of the C# significantly.

A second issue (not major but there)....it takes a good tech to dial in the low A trigger key (thumbkey). It's a tricky regulation because the design/leverage on the thumb trigger is not as direct as the leverage from the pinky Low A touch....so if it isn't really spot-on dialed in, the player needs 'help' from the pinky touch to get a clean closing of the bellkeys when playing low A (only low A...playing low Bb and B are fine).

Some quick notes on Baritone buying:

~ Look at the upper crook and bow, if there are any significant dents or twists to the tubing up there, that really should be repaired.../and that repair may require disassembly of the upper bow. Intonation can be effected by significant dents up there.

~ Confirm whether there is any bellbrace impaction into either the body tube or back of bell...this could result in a slight bend to the tube or a misalignment of the bell...either of which should be repaired.

~ confirm any significant dents to the body tube. Do NOT worry about lower bow dents, those are easily accessibly to fix. But any significant dent to the body tube....WILL require removal of either upper or lower bow to access with dent rods to correct. This, again, adds significant expense to the 'servicing'.

So...people buy these for the tone, build quality/robustness, and the price, usually.

 

[1saxman]

Not ALL Buescher 400's are post buy out Selmer made horns.
My 400 is made by Buescher and has all of the original snaps still in place. 😉

Of course. In fact, MOST 400s existing would be original Bueschers. There are differences that you would want to be familiar with before buying one. The Selmer Buescher 400 tenor I had was a monster horn, so I guess its possible some might actually prefer it, but you don't want to pay original money for a post-Selmer..

 

[turf3]

OP, to simplify, what you have there is NOT a Selmer Paris instrument related in any way to the Selmer Mark 6, or Balanced Action, or Super Action 80.

The basic design is the Buescher 400. After the Selmer buyout of Buescher these were made with the names "Selmer USA", "Bundy", "Buescher", and "Buescher 400" on them. They're all basically the same thing. One sub-model had a cylindrical extension added (like the Conn 11M) to make a low A horn.

As to the quality of the individual instrument, at this point in time it's mostly dependent on the usage and service history of that individual.

My admittedly limited experience of the vintage baritones is that the Buescher has a less cutting sound than a Conn, more of a room-filling deep tone; the King is "creamy" and the Martin is very much like the Conn - somewhat hoarse sounding. All of them will blow away the Selmer BA/6/Super Action 80 for projection and the ability to provide the bottom in a sax section. They'll also be a lot more idiosyncratic and you have to spend some time actually learning the horn.

 

[bandmommy]

Of course. In fact, MOST 400s existing would be original Bueschers. There are differences that you would want to be familiar with before buying one. The Selmer Buescher 400 tenor I had was a monster horn, so I guess its possible some might actually prefer it, but you don't want to pay original money for a post-Selmer..

I think you have that backwards. Most 400's in use today, aka existing 400's are POST buy out Buescher horns. Not 'original' pre buy out Bueschers.

 

[Stocker]

It DID have some model # associated with it, the Selmer USA Low A's...although the number escapes me now.

The model number for the low A was 156 (except for the one year they apparently called it "BS200" until realizing that associating a product with Bovine Scat was unwise) - sold as a Signet from around 1977 through '84, and as a Selmer from 1985 onward.

 

[1saxman]

I think you have that backwards. Most 400's in use today, aka existing 400's are POST buy out Buescher horns. Not 'original' pre buy out Bueschers.

I don't know about that. Seems like Buescher made the 400 for a lot longer than Selmer did and in greater quantity. Why don't you count them all up and get back to me next year.

 

[bandmommy]

I don't know about that. Seems like Buescher made the 400 for a lot longer than Selmer did and in greater quantity. Why don't you count them all up and get back to me next year.

Why don't do a survey of all the bari players and see how many still use a pre-buyout 400. Or ANY 400 for that matter.
You can get back to me next year as well.