[Elliot G.]

Hello, I have a few pictures of a buffet but have a hard time finding things about it. It's a saxophone that the school I attend owns and I rented it last year. I decided to ask if I could get it out and play around today, it's a nice blower. I was just wondering what model it was and when it was made.

 

[Kritavi]

ROC is Republic of China. Its a modern Chinese horn sold by Buffet.

 

[Elliot G.]

ROC is Republic of China. Its a modern Chinese horn sold by Buffet.

Oh wow, band director said it was an older horn. Thanks.

 

[Pete Kelly]

ROC is Republic of China. Its a modern Chinese horn sold by Buffet.

R.O.C. is Taiwan. Much more likely a better build, if it's an older horn, than mainland Chinese manufacturer of similar vintage.

 

[funbuffalo24]

It's the 100 series tenor, or '8102'. This and the next step up, the 400 series are both Chinese made. The 400 has double arms on the Low C and engraving on the key cups, some other stuff too but I haven't seen one yet in person to tell you more. They've been out for maybe... 8 years? So potentially vintage, lol! Their current top of the model range Senzo is French and German production, iirc.

 

[ptung]

ROC is Taiwan. Not "China." A lot of Americans (I am an American) are so ignorant they don't know this. That is a massive degree of ignorance, not just generally, but specific to saxophones. The offended will resent that, because they love their ignorance and resent any challenge to it, rather than resenting their own ignorance and asking what its cause is.

Taiwan has been a democratic Republic, a tiny nation struggling for recognition and support from being commandeered by totalitarian China for 60 years. To not know that is criminally ignorant in a democratic nation.

Here is something more important: a lot of what I see here is genuinely Buffet, though indeed ROC should mean Taiwan (which is where Eastman 52nd St., P. Mauriat, Macsax, other brands including a line of my own are made).

If you search long and hard for another ROC make that has an Eb/C RH table like that, and keyguards and bumper lugs like that, you'll be either challenged or strike out.

That's interesting.

I'm saying it looks like if it was made in ROC it may have been made on Buffet tooling, and that is a very different thing if it indeed did happen in China (which, most likely, it didn't, unless R.O.C. has no relation to origin and it should rightly read P.R.C.).

 

[funbuffalo24]

ROC is Taiwan. Not "China." A lot of Americans (I am an American) are so ignorant they don't know this. That is a massive degree of ignorance, not just generally, but specific to saxophones. They will resent that. Because they love their ignorance and resent any challenge to it, rather than resenting their own ignorance and asking what its cause is.

Here is something more important: a lot of what I see here is genuinely Buffet, though indeed ROC should mean Taiwan (which is where Eastman 52nd St., P. Mauriat, Macsax, other brands including a line of my own are made).

If you search long and hard for another ROC make that has an Eb/C RH table like that, and keyguards and bumper lugs like that, you'll be either challenged or strike out.

That's interesting.

I'm saying it looks like if it was made in ROC it may have been made on Buffet tooling, and that is a very different thing if it indeed did happen in China (which, most likely, it didn't, unless R.O.C. has no relation to origin and it should rightly read P.R.C.).

'Made in China' in the colloquial sense to be clear; not an ignorant American omission based on uninformed love of said ignorance. Heck, even our own government nor the majority of the other world states won't/don't 'formally' endorse the 2 parties as divergent. Though I'd agree the manufacturing on the island is much better than what you'd have coming from the mainland; as a bike enthusiast I know Trek, Jamis, Cannondale and many other US manufacturers have their items made there now to ensure quality while at the same time lowering production labor costs. Also I believe only a dozen or so states formally recognize Taiwan and mainland China as separate entities, so saying 'made in china' would still technically be correct the world over, albeit perhaps misleading due to the lack of geographic narrowing down.

 

[ptung]

No. Taiwan is an enemy of China. Even more, China is an existential threat to Taiwan -- not semantically, but really, in fact. Taiwan is not China. Can we get over that stupidity, please? It is stupidity. There is no other accurate way to put it. Equivalence being normalized by ignorant people doesn't make it not stupid. It identifies it as such.

Can you see where that is nonsense, equating them, no matter how casually?

 

[ptung]

(mods pls delete this duplicate post)

 

[lydian]

My Buffet 100 clearly says Buffet on the bell. This isn’t the same.

 

[funbuffalo24]

My Buffet 100 clearly says Buffet on the bell. This isn't the same.

you're right! Actually, the high f lever doesn't seem right either. Shouldn't it be oval with a white plastic inlay, not a plain brass rectangle? The bell to body brace is way off too, right? hmm.

 

[sparq]

I think Jupiter made Buffet's Evette line when made in Taiwan/R.O.C.

 

[milandro]

My Buffet 100 clearly says Buffet on the bell. This isn't the same.

Indeed, yours is made in China, as the 400 is, those made in Taiwan by Jupiter were different horns

Evettes have been made by different makers for many decades if not even for more than a century.

 

[JayeLID]

'Made in China' in the colloquial sense to be clear; not an ignorant American omission based on uninformed love of said ignorance.

Actually, @ptung is in the right here...ROC = Taiwan, and in the musical instrument world (in all manufacturing, really) something which is Tawianese-made is not, in fact, Chinese-made.

There is a discernment to be made there.

PROC = Mainland China. ROC = Taiwan.

....there is nothing 'technically correct', nor sociopolitically correct, nor economically correct, nor geographically correct, etc....about stating they are 'both' China.

I think Jupiter made Buffet's Evette line when made in Taiwan/R.O.C.

Indeed, yours (Buffet 100) is made in China, as the 400 is, those made in Taiwan by Jupiter were different horns
Evettes have been made by different makers for many decades if not even for more than a century.

You both got it right. If it is engraved Buffet...this is a Jupiter-made Buffet...I'd probably guess it is actually an Evette-Buffet branded one (?)

This is NOT a "Buffet 100"...at least as we see and know of the model today (which is a very respectable horn and a significantly better instrument, IMHO, than the student Yamas which are currently produced). Cross-reference pics of a Buffet 100 with these pics, you will see it isn't the same instrument.

So it was probably a stencil of the Jupe 5XX series horn at the time...not a bad student instrument in its day.

 

[milandro]

I was talking of the person (mdavej) who was comparing it to his Buffet 100, wasn’t talking of OP’s horn

 

[JayeLID]

I was talking of the person (mdavej) who was comparing it to his Buffet 100, wasn't talking of OP's horn

....and I was referring to the person who initially identified it as a 100 (then subsequently agreed it wasn't)...
....just didn't want any unsuspecting viewer to think that is what a 100 looks like.

 

[milandro]

no, OP’s sax is not a Buffet 100

 

[turf3]

Anyway, OP's photos show a Taiwan-made instrument with some evidences of trying to copy some of the distinctive features of a true Buffet Crampon made in France.

 

[Elliot G.]

Awesome, been trying to find out what type of saxophone this was since last year. This clears up a lot. It's not a bad horn at any means, I really like playing on it when I can.

 

[milandro]

Jupiter was commisioned these horns by Buffet, all they did was to produce a saxophone as they were asked to do by Buffet.

they write this in their page ( KHS is Jupiter)

Jupiter Band Instruments - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"...
The hand tools used to fashion the musical instrument parts are from Switzerland and the USA and the CNC machines are from Japan. The lacquer used is imported from Britain and the USA and the soldering powder is imported from Canada. All of the KHS manufacturing facilities in Taiwan and China are ISO 9001 certified. KHS has made musical instruments for other companies such as Buffet Crampon (Evette), Vito and Keilwerth ST-90 series IV saxophones, B&S trumpets and Courtois cornets. KHS has made Olds, Blessing, Riley and Arbiter Jazz saxophones."