[milandro]

Also, the seller of the 1926 bronze Buescher, said that was made in Germany. Which I have doubt of; someone may be able to confirm here?

there is not such thing as a bronze True Tone and no Buescher (one of the largest company of its times with no need to commission things abroad) was ever made in Germany

 

[sunpowerusa]

Gold plated ….a bundy was made by keilwerh not buesceher

 

[jazzbob]

Thanks for the comments on my cell phone photos. I'll have to use my 35mm camera to try to get some better images, so please bear with me on that awhile; not too long, as we do have some unexposed rolls of film.


The saxophone does look remarkably untouched by time; so tarnish hardly seems too likely? The current mystery is certainly intriguing. The seller, not a musician, said the instrument was found at an estate sale; and also that it was once part of the jazz scene in Detroit, perhaps.


Glad no one dissed me about my literary efforts, which were done between 9:30 and 10:00 last night feeling tired. Folks are nice for being so kind..I'm often philosophical and can laugh at myself easily. Not having had to work for a living since September of 1984 does have advantages, I think.

 

[jazzbob]

Use the search engine for this one. There have been some real sax geeky discussions on the minutia of Buescher models on here throughout the years -- especially the different numbered models of the Aristocrat.

I'm lost about using "the search engine". Any suggestions as to what I'd put say; which would seem to be best if specific notions were used? Maybe "type 4 Buescher saxophone" is where I'd start.

 

[lydian]

Given the answers posted so far, what questions remain?

I know you’re joking about the film. But a phone can take fantastic pictures in the right lighting with a steady hand and attention to proper focus, etc. But the all important stamp doesn’t have to be a perfect shot.

 

[Hornlip]

Tarnish can happen no matter what, horn just sitting in the case. Can also affect gold-plated horns, because they plated the horns with silver, then laid down gold on top of that.

 

[jazzbob]

Gold plated ….a bundy was made by keilwerh not buesceher

Dau Freitag played a German Bundy alto saxophone he'd shown me.


The last of the beat era poets, a close friend of Alan Ginsberg; Dau's music can still be heard and downloaded on the internet: which is amazing and interesting, who'd once been a performing partner of George Winston's, the New Age pianist. www.soundcloud.com/dau-the-pied-piper


Dau gave me a copy of his own version of The Ten Commandments: "Don't be a schmuck" for instance.

 

[jazzbob]

Given the answers posted so far, what questions remain?

I know you’re joking about the film. But a phone can take fantastic pictures in the right lighting with a steady hand and attention to proper focus, etc. But the all important stamp doesn’t have to be a perfect shot.

Hey, no joking; I'm going to get out my 35mm Olympus right now. A ten dollar yard sale find, I had to get a new back for. I'll get the roll of film to the developers on Monday, tomorrow. I'm excited, since the little thing does take nice photos. I even have a little tripod, so look out folks, this should be lots of fun. My cell phone is a free one given to low-income folks here; so I'm far from sure if that would have a great camera?

 

[SephirothTNH]

Yeah. It seems the only question left is what the finish is.

We talked about the few differences between series 3 and 4. I think we can all agree this sax was made in Elkhart Indiana not Germany.

The finish as others have stated is hard to tell from the pictures. Perhaps the cell phone camera can get a better picture with better lighting. Maybe indirect sunlight. Other than that it has the more ornate gold plate engraving.

Is it a mix of tarnished silver and gold plate? That’s kind of where I’m leaning. Or maybe a gold plate that was lacquered over? We’ve definitely seen examples of silver plate horns get lacquered over. Or maybe something custom someone had done 20 30 50 years ago?

However it’s not made of bronze and it isn’t made in Germany. It may have lived in Germany for a little while. These things have had long lives.

 

[lostcircuits]

The finish as others have stated is hard to tell from the pictures. Perhaps the cell phone camera can get a better picture with better lighting. Maybe indirect sunlight. Other than that it has the more ornate gold plate engraving.

Is it a mix of tarnished silver and gold plate? That’s kind of where I’m leaning. Or maybe a gold plate that was lacquered over? We’ve definitely seen examples of silver plate horns get lacquered over. Or maybe something custom someone had done 20 30 50 years ago?

Exactly!
Anything else of this thread appears to be heading into Trolland.

 

[JayeLID]

Interesting hue...not impossible it was refinished at some point, possibly a new plating (?)

Cool-looking, really. I like it. But it wouldn't make it any rarer than any other roller G# TT....

 

[Hornlip]

Yeah. It seems the only question left is what the finish is.

We talked about the few differences between series 3 and 4. I think we can all agree this sax was made in Elkhart Indiana not Germany.

The finish as others have stated is hard to tell from the pictures. Perhaps the cell phone camera can get a better picture with better lighting. Maybe indirect sunlight. Other than that it has the more ornate gold plate engraving.

Is it a mix of tarnished silver and gold plate? That’s kind of where I’m leaning. Or maybe a gold plate that was lacquered over? We’ve definitely seen examples of silver plate horns get lacquered over. Or maybe something custom someone had done 20 30 50 years ago?

However it’s not made of bronze and it isn’t made in Germany. It may have lived in Germany for a little while. These things have had long lives.

With regards to the finish, there’s always the possibility that it was a one-off custom job. Somebody upthread mentioned the possibility of a rose-gold finish, like the wash found in the bells of some Buescher horns from that era. Don’t know why you couldn’t do that to a whole horn, and with heavier plating than a bell wash.

 

[lostcircuits]

With regards to the finish, there’s always the possibility that it was a one-off custom job. Somebody upthread mentioned the possibility of a rose-gold finish, like the wash found in the bells of some Buescher horns from that era. Don’t know why you couldn’t do that to a whole horn, and with heavier plating than a bell wash.

I distinctly remember seeing a rose-gold plated horn (took about 2 days for the memory to resurface) but it was not a Buescher but a Yanagisawa SCWO20PGP Elite Curved Soprano Bronze Pink Gold Plate

 

[jazzbob]

Well, my 35mm camera is on the fritz; so here are four more photos using a table for a base to get clearer shots. I doubt much there will be any better conclusions made, however? When I get my 35mm camera fixed, and have some photos should those prove more interesting, I'll start another thread-to not be trolling..I guess.


The saxophone doesn't have anything like the tarnish which the gold-plate 1930 Buescher had, prior to restoration; and whatever is due to the age of the instrument, seems in the nature of the specific finish. Though, that '30 sax had been kept in a homemade case made from cedar, that may have caused the very heavy tarnishing?


Thanks everyone for your help and interest; wish I could show this sax to folks in person-playing the thing! Take care..

 

[SephirothTNH]

The issue isn’t the background it’s the lighting. You need better lighting. Like take it outside and try to take a picture in indirect sunlight.

But to me it still looks like it’s gold plated where most of the gold plate is gone and much of the silver has blackened.

 

[lostcircuits]

Much better pictures. Gold plated with the satin option and the silver underneath is tarnishing and bleeding through. The original "luster" can probably be restored using a chem bath. I did that with my gold plated TT c-mel and it came out beautiful.

 

[bruce bailey]

I am starting to think that it is a satin silver horn that has had gold lacquer applied which is common. I did have a TT that I thought was nickel plated on the ebay ad and discovered that it was a light gold wash color. The OP's horn is satin however.

 

[JL]

As others have pointed out, those last photos almost certainly look like a horn that was gold plated and much of the gold plate has worn off, leaving the underlying silver which has tarnished to some extent. There are areas, especially the keys, that clearly show the silver plate that would have underlain the gold plating.

 

[turf3]

...Those specific Bueschers are the ones John-Edward Kelly refers to as having "parabolic" bores,...

Except that on those rare occasions when someone got wild and ACTUALLY MEASURED them, they're cones, just like every other saxophone.

 

[milandro]

if all the myths on the saxophone world would be fact checkt very few would stand the test