[jazzbob]

I have had a gold-plate 1930 type 3 Buescher "Truetone" alto and now have a bronze 1926 type 3 Buescher "Truetone" alto, and know there are also type 4 Buescher "Truetone" saxophones; so am wondering what the difference is between the type 3 and type 4 models?

Also, the seller of the 1926 bronze Buescher, said that was made in Germany. Which I have doubt of; someone may be able to confirm here?

I played the gold-plate 1930 Buescher about twenty years, and do agree with John-Edward Kelly that those horns have a greater resistance. I also thought there is a definitely more appealing sound, which others also noticed.

I'm eager to begin playing the bronze saxophone, which came with a pulled down neck, and some damage in transit to the octave mechanism that needs to be bent back to the shape that was made in. The bronze horn shows off the bell engraving exceptionally well, and is otherwise quite interesting looking; a subdued warmth, not unlike the tone of those supposed "parabolic" bore instruments..subjectively speaking.

 

[Ixthusdan]

https://nationalsaxophonemuseum.com/buescher.html

I do not see how any Beuscher was produced in Germany. The founder of the company worked for Conn in Elkhart, Indiana, prior to 1900 and was instrumental in designing the first American saxophones. He later formed his own company, competing with Conn.

I read another article that stated Beuscher's designs were thought to be close to Adolphe Sax's originals. I have always thought that American horns were closer to Sax's designs, but that does not mean they were produced in Germany.

 

[JayeLID]

I dunno what a "bronze" True Tone is (?)

It was never a model name Buescher employed...and...saxes aren't made of bronze, bronze is too brittle an alloy to be a musical instrument body material. Yes, today some brands claim bronze, but they really are not true bronze alloy.

Regarding the Germany thing....the only thing I can think is this:

someone has a sax engraved "True Tone", with "Germany" somewhere stamped on it.

Probably True Tone in this instance is the stencil name....and in fact the sax was made in Germany.
But it has no relationship to a Buescher ....that'd be my guess....

Do you have a pic of the horn ? because either it looks like a TT in which case it wasn't made in Germany, or ot doesn't look like a TT in which case maybe it was...

 

[JayeLID]

I really don't get heavy into 'type 1, 2, 3' or 'series 1, 2, 3' etc....because these monikers were never employed at the time the instruments were made; they are only used today to discern changes in design, mostly. Which is perfectly valid.

But Saxpics shows 4 types , so maybe while awaiting more definitive replies here - if you want, go look at the pics of a 3 vs. 4 and see if you notice any differences.

 

[SephirothTNH]

I have a series 3 and a series 4 True Tone alto. The differences are few. The engraving got a little better and added USA on the 4. The alt f# key is bigger and easier to hit on the series 4.

I cant recall off the top of my head which neck is with which sax but one of them is marked with a star and the other is marked with a 1, not 01. Both play with the same intonation tendencies so I suspect there is no difference in the necks only in how buescher marked them.

 

[Dr G]

I have had a gold-plate 1930 type 3 Buescher "Truetone" alto and now have a bronze 1926 type 3 Buescher "Truetone" alto…

Also, the seller of the 1926 bronze Buescher, said that was made in Germany.

Pictures, please. The stamp near the thumb hook and images of the bell engraving would be useful.

Could it be that you are confusing brass for bronze?

Are there identifying marks that indicate the place of origin?

 

[lostcircuits]

I have a series 3 and a series 4 True Tone alto. The differences are few. The engraving got a little better and added USA on the 4. The alt f# key is bigger and easier to hit on the series 4.

I cant recall off the top of my head which neck is with which sax but one of them is marked with a star and the other is marked with a 1, not 01. Both play with the same intonation tendencies so I suspect there is no difference in the necks only in how buescher marked them.

Didn't they also change the G# key from a button to the Aristocrat-style plate around 1930 (series 4)?

 

[JayeLID]

Series 3's have the metal roller touch too...

 

[SephirothTNH]

Didn't they also change the G# key from a button to the Aristocrat-style plate around 1930 (series 4)?

I’m pretty sure Jaylid is correct. Both my True Tone’s have the roller g#.

 

[jazzbob]

The "bronze" 1926 has the roller G# which is said to be used on both so-called type 3 and type 4 "Truetone" Bueschers. The "Truetone" label was used on many of the Buescher saxophones; though in common parlance lately, this specifically refers to the Bueschers made during the 1920s and early 1930s; which are designations created within the repair trade if I'm not mistaken?

Those specific Bueschers are the ones John-Edward Kelly refers to as having "parabolic" bores, whose pamphlet The Acoustics of the Saxophone From a Phenomenological Perspective I've read and used to have a copy of. He played a 1928 Buescher alto saxophone, and required all his students play similar instruments: or so I've read at least.

I'll try to use my cell phone to see if that's camera can post any photos of the so-called "bronze" 1926 Buescher; which sure does look far different from any other Buescher or other saxophones I've ever seen. An almost "rose" color to the metal, which is very dark in comparison to a normal brass saxophone. This photo op could take a little while and may not be successful, as I'm at a community desktop computer now, and haven't one of my own.

Bronze is supposed to be a combination of copper and tin, while brass combines copper and zinc; so perhaps there's some use of both minor alloys to the majority copper in both types of metals, bronze or brass?

 

[lydian]

I think someone is pulling your leg. I've never heard of a bronze model. Most likely gold plated.

 

[lostcircuits]

I think someone is pulling your leg. I've never heard of a bronze model. Most likely gold plated.

Agreed

The "bronze" 1926 has the roller G# which is said to be used on both so-called type 3 and type 4 "Truetone" Bueschers. The "Truetone" label was used on many of the Buescher saxophones; though in common parlance lately, this specifically refers to the Bueschers made during the 1920s and early 1930s; which are designations created within the repair trade if I'm not mistaken?

Those specific Bueschers are the ones John-Edward Kelly refers to as having "parabolic" bores, whose pamphlet The Acoustics of the Saxophone From a Phenomenological Perspective I've read and used to have a copy of. He played a 1928 Buescher alto saxophone, and required all his students play similar instruments: or so I've read at least.

I'll try to use my cell phone to see if that's camera can post any photos of the so-called "bronze" 1926 Buescher; which sure does look far different from any other Buescher or other saxophones I've ever seen. An almost "rose" color to the metal, which is very dark in comparison to a normal brass saxophone. This photo op could take a little while and may not be successful, as I'm at a community desktop computer now, and haven't one of my own.

Bronze is supposed to be a combination of copper and tin, while brass combines copper and zinc; so perhaps there's some use of both minor alloys to the majority copper in both types of metals, bronze or brass?

This may be a long shot but I heard of a few rose-gold plated instruments. Rose gold was commonly used as gold-wash for the bells of silver plated TTs. I have never seen one but who knows, maybe one of the gold-plated instruments ended up rose-gold plated.

As others have stated, without detailed pictures, everything is hypothetic and academic. And, no pun intended, most forum regulars here know what a TT is, you are bringing owls to Athens.

 

[smoothgroove]

Use the search engine for this one. There have been some real sax geeky discussions on the minutia of Buescher models on here throughout the years -- especially the different numbered models of the Aristocrat.

 

[Hornlip]

The crescent G# with the roller and standard front - F key were added about 1926; I think that’s the “type 3”. Then “type 4” would get the larger F# touch (as noted above), the little “rocker” mechanism bridging the upper and lower stack key cups, improved palm keys, and likely other tweaks as well (like to the neck). There are some slight keywork changes in the left hand stack keys, too; thinking of the angle of the arm for the G touch. If you got really obsessive about it, you could probably break each “type” into sub-types, because I think they were constantly making little changes.

 

[jazzbob]

Here are some cell phone photos of the "bronze" so-called; 1926 Buescher alto saxophone. I have had a gold-plate 1930 Buescher, and this 1926 saxophone looks nothing like the gold '30 sax, nor like any brass Buescher of that era either. The finish on the key-body looks like perhaps a factory mate type, rather than polished or buffed.

 

[jazzbob]

Awhile back in a Spokane used book store, I came across an old Buescher brochure advertising their saxes as "the woman's saxophone". This instrument sure sells that concept. Except I feel like Charles Heston; "out of my cold dead hands" which I better watch out about, as that could likely be arranged? Aw, she's a nice person, really; though for a gift to a friend..just my poor luck. lol* And a nice 1960s or '70s era Aristocrat for her lady friend, too. Next one's a silver one, which I ought to be able to hold onto; perhaps! I really love these 1920s and '30s Bueschers..with the roller G#. I just ordered the sheet music to J. S. Bach's Partita for Flute in A minor, which sits really nice on the alto saxophone as written. That isn't something I'll be covering any time soon, probably; though perhaps a competition with the ladies, will encourage progress with the thing? *lol = "love of life" sometimes; too. Laughing love out of loud life?

 

[jazzbob]

Awhile back in a Spokane used book store, I came across an old Buescher brochure advertising their saxes as "the woman's saxophone". This instrument sure sells that concept.


Except I feel like Charles Heston; "out of my cold dead hands" which I better watch out about, as that could likely be arranged? Aw, she's a nice person, really; though for a gift to a friend..just my poor luck. lol* And a nice 1960s or '70s era Aristocrat for her lady friend, too.


Next one's a silver one, which I ought to be able to hold onto; perhaps! I really love these 1920s and '30s Bueschers..with the roller G#.


I just ordered the sheet music to J. S. Bach's Partita for Flute in A minor, which sits really nice on the alto saxophone as written. That isn't something I'll be covering any time soon, probably; though perhaps a competition with the ladies, will encourage progress with the thing? *lol = "love of life" sometimes; too. Laughing love out of loud life?

The above was divided into paragraphs when written; though somehow in cyberspace I'm made to look idiotic. Let's see if I've fixed the problem, by triple spacing between paragraphs?

 

[jazzbob]

Honestly, this has to be my twentieth saxophone. An intelligent person would've hung onto the old H. N. White King of my father's I was given. And never touched another saxophone. Take care, and let us know what folks think of the pictures of that 1926 ax.

 

[lostcircuits]

Based on the engraving going all the way down to the bow-bell ferrule, it should be a gold-plated instrument. The hue/lighting of the photographs makes it impossible to say what exactly it is, whether it is just the underlying silver tarnishing and causing the dark, copper-like tint, or whether it is a honey lacquer applied on top of the gold plating or whether it is indeed a rose-gold plating. It would be very helpful to have at least one crisp photograph of the engraved area of the bell.

 

[Hassles]

horrid images - me is leaning towads tarnish