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I've been browsing this forum heavily for the past few days and I've noticed talk of "growing out of your horn" and have no clue what that means. I played sax and school but never really delved into the more technical aspects of the craft so how would I know if I have grown out of a horn?
 

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This is the oldest trick in the book of any salesperson, it generally means “ we want to sell you another .......”. ( fill the name of whatever item you want on the dots)

It is something that is heavily encouraged by the shops. Try yourself, go to any shop and tell the sales people there that you think that you may have overgrown your horn , if you want play a little, they ALL will find that it is certain that you NEED a new horn.

Anyway, is there anything that you realistically can expect coming from your horn that you are not getting? Don’t let anyone use the normal insecurities that we all have to sell you something that you don’t need.

There are very few people whom are above the capability of their horns. I have been in very mediocre community band for a long time. Most of the senior people there had Selmers and many played way below the capability of their horns. One good friend played ( very nicely) on his Jupiter and did so way better than most on Selmers. Who do you think had advised these people to UPGRADE?

Bigger, Improved, Upgraded.........




 

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You can’t resist it, you know you want it!

If there wouldn’t be continuous products upgrades would anyone ever feel the need to upgrade?

Our government wants the entire country to UPGRADE from 4G to 5G network while the overwhelming majority has no use (let alone need) for this! But the country will NEED (???) to invest so that we can all” upgrade!:soapbox:

We could instead all use an upgrade in public housing (one of the most important sector where the country is leaving the citizen completely alone and unserved:Rant: .

When a friend of mine asked me if I thought that it was right that he would buy the newest €750 Iphone for his 16 years old girl. I told him to ask her if there was anything, ANYthing that she would want to do with that model that she couldn’t do with the model she owned .

Despite the application of simple logic and the fact that my friend is a psychiatrist ( who should know better) he caved in and bought it all the same.

If the customer perceives the upgraded version as dissimilar to the version they own then they are more likely to upgrade despite life left in old product they already own.


The upgrade must have new features – not just enhancements of existing features. Customers tend to focus on features that are new and dissimilar over mere enhancements.
Customers must be familiar with these features before you introduced them – if not then they do not know how to value them and hence are less willing to upgrade.
The features must have high perceived value.


https://iterativepath.wordpress.com...me-or-some-of-new-–-product-upgrade-strategy/


Mind you nobody in marketing talks or REAL improvements over enhanced needs, not they all talk about “ perception":whistle:

Remember this

That is a short term tactic, but for you as a product manager what should be your product strategy that will enable you maximize the uptake of your upgrades?

Resist the temptation to deliver a fully loaded version. Find what is relevant to the segments you are targeting and deliver the Goldilocks version.
Repeat this process for each upgrade, i.e., release a Golidlocks* version at each iteration not just for the first version.
Do not attempt to delight the customer – there is no need to deliver more than what your customers are asking for. This is illustrated in the Value Step function I wrote about.
When planning your next iteration choose features that are new over improving existing features. This may go against the iterative development philosophy of continuous improvement. But when constrained for time and resources, choose new over enhancements
Proudly copy – new to your product does not mean unique. Select those features that are present in your competitor products and values highly by customers.
 

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Love that pic!

It could mean taking growth hormones and as a result going from six feet high to eight feet, in which case your baritone must become your alto and you need to be sold a bass to replace your tenor...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I now want an alto sized baritone, or would that be a baritone shaped alto?
 

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you can actually do that .

you can play any saxophone (or instrument) you wish.

UPGRADE


 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's awesome but I literally want a small baritone sax with the range of an alto please tell me this exist.
 

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in what way “ small"?

You want it baritone shaped meaning that you want a curl? There are “ tenor” shaped altos ( they have a neck that is made for playing closer by)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Essentially I just want an alto sax with the upper bow and neck of a bari, a quick google search turns up nothing so I doubt it exits and I don't have anywhere near enough money or expertise in fabrication to create one.
 

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but why? is it simply because you want a shorter version of an alto? And why do you want such a thing? Transportability?

If size is that much of a problem you could find a short range altos. From Low B to high Eb.

There are tons out there ( French, Belgian, Italian a few German) and they are shorter and smaller than a “ normal alto”, with a Roy Benson neck (or a more expensive Talto Music Medic) you can shorten the neck somewhat.

Also a Buescher Academy is shorter and even more simplified.


 

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Discussion Starter #13
Oh there is no practical reason I just like the idea, more of a whimsical thought than anything
 

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maybe it could be made but it will cost you an arm and a leg (which would be a good reason to use such a short saxophone).

The total lenght has to be the same but you could reduce the range somewhat.

So starting from a Buescher Academy which only gets from low C to high C, you could find someone that would make you a curly version of the upper body and neck (using the Talto or Roy Benson for the last portion).

The result would be a very short alto with a reduced and simplified keywork.

These things do exist for example there are German companies specialized in making kid’s bassoons.

 

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Discussion Starter #15
interesting, I might have to look into that if I ever have a god amount of money burning a hole in my pocket.
 

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interesting, I might have to look into that if I ever have a god amount of money burning a hole in my pocket.
anything can be done with enough money and dedication. Academy are not rare or incredibly expensive and cutting them down would not be out of the scope of a reasonable mechanic.

Note that the academy has a open hole the bell can be reduced there ( it probably needs not being that long). The length of tubing above the C can be reduced in a curl provided you keep the length and taper
 

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I've been browsing this forum heavily for the past few days and I've noticed talk of "growing out of your horn" and have no clue what that means. I played sax and school but never really delved into the more technical aspects of the craft so how would I know if I have grown out of a horn?
It might be useful if you can link to the posts where you have read that. The couple I can find very obviously seem to mean that somebody has what is considered a beginner or student instrument and they have progressed to a point at which they obviously have some talent and have achieved a certain level of technique whereby they deserve (or think they deserve) a "better" or more professional level saxophone.

I can't think what else this is supposed to mean, we don't have different size saxophones for different size people (as with string instruments).

As been mentioned, often the problem with the perception of an instruments quality is that the terms beginner, student, professional etc. are very often used as marketing tools to make people think they need a new instrument and that they have "outgrown" the old one.
 

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The couple I can find very obviously seem to mean that somebody has what is considered a beginner or student instrument and they have progressed to a point at which they obviously have some talent and have achieved a certain level of technique whereby they deserve (or think they deserve) a "better" or more professional level saxophone.
I agree - Usually, and I see this with my students, if a parent buys a second hand horn rather than rent, they'll get something inexpensive since they don't want to put down a lot of money on something they're not sure their child will even continue with after a year or two. These are usually cheap knockoffs or horns with questionable pads that probably need replacing. After a couple years if the kid is still interested in playing long term through school then the parents will get them a "step up" horn which means something of higher quality, name brand, more expensive, and/or better condition. For example buying a Yamaha 23 or 475 after playing a beat up Bundy for a couple years. This is where the marketing tactics come in to get them to choose x horn over y. Ideally, the student will have developed some technique and concept of sound at this point that he/she can try some different options and pick what plays best for them rather than what looks best or is most expensive (go for sound rather than be victim to marketing).
 

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It might be useful if you can link to the posts where you have read that. The couple I can find very obviously seem to mean that somebody has what is considered a beginner or student instrument and they have progressed to a point at which they obviously have some talent and have achieved a certain level of technique whereby they deserve (or think they deserve) a "better" or more professional level saxophone.

I can't think what else this is supposed to mean, we don't have different size saxophones for different size people (as with string instruments).

As been mentioned, often the problem with the perception of an instruments quality is that the terms beginner, student, professional etc. are very often used as marketing tools to make people think they need a new instrument and that they have "outgrown" the old one.
Sorry, my whimsy had run out of control, but it was fun while it lasted!
 
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