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Discussion Starter #1
So is lacquered horn sound better than bare brass horn? The other way around?
Curious, what does a bare brass horn sound like? I never heard any brass brass horn played.

I am totally confused with all those long debate about this matter.

And yes this is a serious question.
 

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I heard about a guy once who stripped his horn of almost all the lacquer himself with paint stripper and a toothbrush, and then had new pads installed. It was a relacquer and he believed that the lacquer was affecting the sound. After the stripping he felt it did actually sound like it had a little extra resonance, but it didn't play any better. But don't take it from me, this is just what I heard... :)
 

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Many musicians think that lacquer or plating can effect an instrument's sound, most scientists say no. Theoretically, only what's inside the horn will effect the sound, and plating is on the outside. It's impossible to know for sure, because small differences both in setup and on the inside of the horn can be responsible for major differences in sound.

The issue has been debated to death on the forums, but you might have a point, we could do well to have a different summary of the main points and ideas, since it is quite confusing to some who are approaching the topic for the first time. My best advice is to do a search and weed through as much as you can.
 

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Dude, it's all subjective. Nobody can really answer this question for you because you may interpret a good/bad sound differently than the person giving you the advise.

Phil Woods is currently playing an unlacquered Yamaha. He still sounds like Phil Woods regardless of what horn he's on.
 

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mjs10 said:
So is lacquered horn sound better than bare brass horn? The other way around?
Curious, what does a bare brass horn sound like? I never heard any brass brass horn played.

I am totally confused with all those long debate about this matter.

And yes this is a serious question.
Try to check out the Yamaha 82z in both lacquered and un-lacquered versions if you can. Yamaha's are generally very consistent horns and you can see what differences you perceive.

In the archives you will find a lot of differing opinions about this subject. My belief remains that the difference is noticed mostly by the player and not by the audience.
 

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Hurling Frootmig said:
Try to check out the Yamaha 82z in both lacquered and un-lacquered versions if you can. Yamaha's are generally very consistent horns and you can see what differences you perceive.

In the archives you will find a lot of differing opinions about this subject. My belief remains that the difference is noticed mostly by the player and not by the audience.
I second the yamaha consistencies. Tried upwards of 10 horns of each of their versions, all except one 875EX played AMAZINGLY. I wasn't able to hear a difference between the UL and Lacquered Zs, but I only had two examples of the UL and one of the regular lacquer. The rest were silver, and one shotblast.
EDIT: they all sounded just about the same, to me, the shotblast sounded the best though (blind test).
 

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Don't beat dead horses--use the search function

A lacquered horn sounds like an unlacquered one, except the unlacquered one has no lacquer
 

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mjs10 said:
I am totally confused with all those long debate about this matter.And yes this is a serious question.
I have no doubt that yours is a serious question but, in my not so humble opinion, the latest debate on this matter (where i tried, oh my George! I tried... ) to lighten up the verbosity of an incoclusive argument and make the parts come to realize they were talking to themselves and that the whole matter could have been only generating, as it was debated, more confusion even though it was attempting to research the science of it. But the science on the matter is flimsy and not irrefutable, therefore unconvincing, therefore leaving all questions stillo open after having mixed up the poor player even more.

The proof of the pudding is ......in the playing! If you think lacquer matters... so be it!...... and if you don't see a reason to lacquer or de-lacquer.....well, it is good all the same! Someone invoked the priciple of Democracy stating the freedom of the debaters to debate. I took the position that I am the best judge in matters of faith which involve myself and left the debate to the debaters, who are of course free to debate for debate's sake......:?
 

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just don't inhale the paint stripper!

My Martin Indiana alto came with the lacquer stripped from the engraving on the bell (see avatar) and the neck. Does it make a difference? I dunno, but I might try and tell you if I had a mint one to compare them.

All I know is to me it sounds great, even with the remaining original lacquer. :p
 

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mjs10 said:
So is lacquered horn sound better than bare brass horn? The other way around?
Curious, what does a bare brass horn sound like? I never heard any brass brass horn played.

I am totally confused with all those long debate about this matter.

And yes this is a serious question.
If you'd read any of the other hundred threads on exactly the same topic you'd be no better informed.

And absolutely no wiser.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
From my logic, I am telling myself that bare brass horn should sound bit more brighter than lacquered one. Gold plated horn gives warmer sound and it proves as I have a gold plated Gulf alto that just arrived yesterday and I cant stop be amazed on the quality of its finishing and the sound projection. But its another story, i am not gonna talk about a brand of a horn in this topic...anyway...

The thing that is fact (well at least after my own observation), this gold plated alto is not so free blowing compared to my plated M6. And generally lacquered horn is more free blowing, and maybe because of this reason that the debate of this matter evolves.

Speaking of yamaha 875ex, i am ordering 1 at the moment to replace my yanagisawa tenor t800. They only come in gold plated finish dont they? The color is not bright yellow but its more like yellow orangeish color. I tried the horn and it is awesome!!!!!!
 

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mjs10 said:
From my logic, I am telling myself that bare brass horn should sound bit more brighter than lacquered one. Gold plated horn gives warmer sound and it proves as I have a gold plated Gulf alto that just arrived yesterday and I cant stop be amazed on the quality of its finishing and the sound projection. But its another story, i am not gonna talk about a brand of a horn in this topic...anyway...

The thing that is fact (well at least after my own observation), this gold plated alto is not so free blowing compared to my plated M6. And generally lacquered horn is more free blowing, and maybe because of this reason that the debate of this matter evolves.

Speaking of yamaha 875ex, i am ordering 1 at the moment to replace my yanagisawa tenor t800. They only come in gold plated finish dont they? The color is not bright yellow but its more like yellow orangeish color. I tried the horn and it is awesome!!!!!!
Lacquer and/or goldlacquer is often used to name the same thing. Goldlacquer is not gold plating. Same goes for the Yama's, goldlacquer and not plated. I think your Gulf sax is goldlacquered and not plated, but that's just me.
As for the sound versus finish.........I remain :silent:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
here some pics of my gold plated alto, sounds warmer than my M6, the mark 6 sounds a bit brighter with more free blowing.
 

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mjs10,
Yamaha's come in a standard gold -lacquer-. Their lacquer is much, much darker than every other manufacturer and actually can look like gold plate since it is so dark. They do have Gold Plate as an option, but the price typically doubles. I have a Gold Plate EX alto, and it is the most amazing horn I have ever played.

Steve P
 

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here we go round the mulberry bush.....
 

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This is rich--a guy who joined a few months ago telling somebody to use the search function.... "The number of posts an expert does not one make." -Master Yoda :D
 

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Swingtone said:
This is rich--a guy who joined a few months ago telling somebody to use the search function.... "The number of posts an expert does not one make." -Master Yoda :D
I have used the search function to great effect. I admit that many of my posts are of the smart aleck variety, many are not:p

This is not the only forum that I've been on, so it really is not my first barbecue. I've told folks many times that google is their friend on linux forums, as well as answered simple questions. I know more about saxes than I ever did, or probably ever will, about linux.

I guess playing sax for 40+ years, and 20 years as a recording/live sound engineer doesn't make me an expert.

The truth is, the OP on this thread should use the search function, where the last two or three lacquer vs. no lacquer threads should pop up. There's no need to start a new one. Kymarto, SaxyAcoustician, Brasscane, JBTsax and others have done a good job of discussing this topic, even giving good references to scientific studies.

BTW, lacquer/no lacquer makes no difference, unless you've rubbed the lacquer off with your own hands over time. That means that you've spent time in the shed.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah probably you are right Hakukani, I dont have much experience and I fell in love with saxophone about 2 years ago, used to play the piano.

This instrument is full with mystic and very intriguing. I cant believe each sax sounds differently than others, unlike piano or keyboard or even trumpet (well they all sound the same to me).

Steve you re right its a gold lacquer, and probably I would be getting a smack on the head if I ask "would yamaha's darker gold lacquer make different sound than those one with normal gold lacquer?" But i assume they dont matter:D

Just curious tho, if lacquer or sax finishing dont have any thing to do with the sound, what would make yamaha 82z differs in sound than 875ex then? (they are both pro horn and sounds wonderful, different but still wonderful)

I dont fancy the 82z but my wife loves it better than 875...go figure!
 
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