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resonators don’t resonate, if they do anything is that they “ reflect" the sound.

Your article is a misrepresentation of the physics of this device. Allowing vibrations of the device to happen (or not) will not do anything to the sound at all.

As this study concludes the material of the reflector has no bearing on the sound the saxophone produces. Please don’t give origin to another myth in vibrationalist land!



http://www.music.mcgill.ca/caml/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:isma2014_eveno.pdf
 

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I agree... Resonators are ill-named and do not resonate. How could they with all that damping under them. (They could be called "non-absorbers".)
All they do is present less sound-absorbing, soft pad-material to the air column (that has pads closed).
The air column's container is ideally a rigid material. Leather and felt are not. Metal and plastic are.
 

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When you "make space behind the pad" you guarantee that sooner or later you will have intermittent leaks.

Just because pads were put in with a tiny dollop of shellac at the factory doesn't mean this was the best practice for long term stability of the padding. It may mean that it was the best practice for finishing the assembly process quickly.
 

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resonators don’t resonate, if they do anything is that they “ reflect" the sound.

Your article is a misrepresentation of the physics of this device. Allowing vibrations of the device to happen (or not) will not do anything to the sound at all.

As this study concludes the material of the reflector has no bearing on the sound the saxophone produces. Please don’t give origin to another myth in vibrationalist land!


http://www.music.mcgill.ca/caml/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:isma2014_eveno.pdf
The article states, "it has also been observed that pad vibrations can influence the acoustic radiation coming out of open toneholes. Nevertheless, this effect is small and is significant for small key heights only." In the conclusions, "This tends to support the hypothesis that only the rigidity of the pad matters on the acoustics of the saxophone."

Not meaning to argue (being unschooled on this), I read the article to suggest that pad vibration does affect sound and playability, "A perceptual study performed on 13 musicians shows that they find a saxophone without pad resonators less bright and less easy to play than a saxophone with pad resonators, that the resonators act to reflect air, and reduce the vibration of the pads."
Am I understanding this correctly?
 

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Just imagine if they did resonate (and people forgot they did), back in the day when people knew they resonated then why did nobody come up with huge hollow keycups to add even more resonance.

Reminds of the forgotten Selmer resosax keys

 

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The article states, "it has also been observed that pad vibrations can influence the acoustic radiation coming out of open toneholes. Nevertheless, this effect is small and is significant for small key heights only." In the conclusions, "This tends to support the hypothesis that only the rigidity of the pad matters on the acoustics of the saxophone."

Not meaning to argue (being unschooled on this), I read the article to suggest that pad vibration does affect sound and playability, "A perceptual study performed on 13 musicians shows that they find a saxophone without pad resonators less bright and less easy to play than a saxophone with pad resonators, that the resonators act to reflect air, and reduce the vibration of the pads."
Am I understanding this correctly?
The pads..not the reflectors

in the small pads the notes produce high energy sounds these can have the pad vibrate. This amounts to small deformation of the area which is is close connection to the tone hole and I guess they may sympathetically affect in a minuscule way only those areas.

Anyway those keys often DON’t even have a reflector to speak of, as such ,but jus a small rivet. OP seeks to prove that oscillations of the resonator affect, negatively, the sound. A completely different predicament.
 

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The article states, "it has also been observed that pad vibrations can influence the acoustic radiation coming out of open toneholes. Nevertheless, this effect is small and is significant for small key heights only." In the conclusions, "This tends to support the hypothesis that only the rigidity of the pad matters on the acoustics of the saxophone."

Not meaning to argue (being unschooled on this), I read the article to suggest that pad vibration does affect sound and playability, "A perceptual study performed on 13 musicians shows that they find a saxophone without pad resonators less bright and less easy to play than a saxophone with pad resonators, that the resonators act to reflect air, and reduce the vibration of the pads."
Am I understanding this correctly?
It is not the pad vibrations per se that affect the sound and response of a pad without a resonator, it is the non-rigidity (flexibility?) of the pad leather combined with its porosity and non smooth surface that abso0rbs rather than reflects the soundwave's energy. Jim Schmidt did an interesting experiment on a flute. He covered the toneholes with a stretched thin rubber material such as that found on a balloon. One might think it would play great since the toneholes were perfectly airtight. Not at all. It played terrible because the flex of the rubber material covering the tone hole absorbed the energy of the sound wave. The same principle applies here.
 

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Jim Schmidt with the gold pads?
He put balloons over the tone holes?
That would negate the keys and pads.
If he put them over the pads so they were supported they wouldn't flex much at all.
I know he has created a product but I've never seen them on any flute except in pics and all the repair techs I know wouldn't put them on a flute.
 

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Talk about a poorly named device. So if resonators are actually reflectors, does adding ridging (corrugation) affect sound or playability? Google searches for ridged resonators and corrugated resonators gave me no data.
 

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I believe the use of the name resonator was borrowed from the banjo/guitar/violin world. Back in the 20s and 30s Gibson guitar company offered the “Virzi tone generator” which was also a reflector (not a resonator). Banjos from that era had so-called resonators which were convex to reflect the sound (not resonate). A banjo with a well-designed resonator will be louder and have more projection than one without.
 

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It might be, but is like calling a cat “ zebra” because it has stripes.
 

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The OP’s article raises the question: “What happens if (hard) pad resonators are allowed to vibrate”. He believes that the tone of the saxophone will be enhanced. The only way to be sure is to do an experiment - two identical saxophones, one with vibrating resonators and one without. But as we know, the problem is that no two saxopnones are identical, and even if they were, the process of re-padding would almost certainly make them different. Impasse!

I can think of two ways that the vibrating pad resonators might affect the tone:
1. Resonators on closed tone holes
2. Resonators on open tone holes.
I assume that the physics will be different in these two cases.

1. A closed tone hole with a vibrating resonator means essentially that the body of the sax is not rigid - it can change a very small amount in size. I presume that this would affect the sound, but I have no idea how much, or whether the effect would be percieved as positive. However this would be relatively easy to check by cutting a hole in a sax body and covering it with a hard patch with adjustable damping. Would any of the Selmer owners in the Forum like to volunteer?

2. An open tone hole with a vibrating resonator is presumably either changing the effective length of the tube, like a sort of miniature vibrato, or like adding a sympathetic resonator to the instrument. I’m an not an expert in acoustics, but my gut feeling is that the pad resonator acting as a sympathetic resonator is too small to have a pleasant effect on the tone.
 

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More importantly what coating on said resonators?
That is what is important.
And whether or not it matches the coating on the lig.

I found that the coating on the adjustment screw of my music stand has the most effect.
YMMV.
 

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Not meaning to argue (being unschooled on this), I read the article to suggest that pad vibration does affect sound and playability, "A perceptual study performed on 13 musicians shows that they find a saxophone without pad resonators less bright and less easy to play than a saxophone with pad resonators, that the resonators act to reflect air, and reduce the vibration of the pads."
Am I understanding this correctly?
Yes... that's what it's written in the article.

With a different DOE (addressed to other aspect of the phenomenon), they may get different results (for a different matter).


So... everything hypotized/supposed in that article has been proven.
But it's true within what they were investigating with that DOE.

That is how an experiment/study works.
 

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resonators don’t resonate, if they do anything is that they “ reflect" the sound.

Your article is a misrepresentation of the physics of this device. Allowing vibrations of the device to happen (or not) will not do anything to the sound at all.

As this study concludes the material of the reflector has no bearing on the sound the saxophone produces. Please don’t give origin to another myth in vibrationalist land!



http://www.music.mcgill.ca/caml/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:isma2014_eveno.pdf
Right on. Phil Barone
 
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