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I think the offer is in favor of the seller because he does not offer returns. If the horn is not quite right or not exactly to your liking you have spent $11,000.00 for a horn you are not happy with.
 

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on the other hand since OP is in Germany he can get in touch with the seller and drive to the place and try the saxophone.

€7000 is a lot of money even for a horn as beautiful as this and I don’t think that there would be a run to buy it.
 

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The seller is asking way too much money for it. I doubt if you decided to sell it that you could recover what you spent on it.
 

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Lots of bling for sure but it doesnt justify that price IMHO.

He may get it from someone with cash to burn but players here have picked up some beautiful S20's for well under 5K

It is purdy tho.
 

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beautiful horn indeed. the photos are a bit fuzzy, which I find a bit suspicious, could be trying to hide something.
if it is indeed as pristine as it seems to be (I can't read german), I'd put its value in the USD$6-7k, for being a collectible sax. the case not being original could knock it down a little.
is there some text scribbled on the bell, in between the Super 20 and silver-sonic engraved letters? that would suck if there is.
Barnard had a pair of these from the same period for sale a couple years ago (S/N 375xxx). his pictures are still up in his website.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for a helpful discussion. I thought myself the price was a bit steep for this instrument because it doesn't come with the original case. It shows some wear and is definitely not a "pristine condition", so a collector will find it not perfect enough and a player will find it too expensive. A shop in Paris is offering a 315xxx Super 20 with full pearls for 1000 EUR less which I find more interesting:

http://www.jfsax-paris.com/produit/tenor-king-super-20-full-pearls-n315672/

I have a museum grade near mint 1962 Selmer Mark 6 tenor that I would trade for a perfect early 50s Silversonic with full pearls.....

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...inal-case-museum-grade&highlight=museum+grade

..... but I think a true Silversonic lover will most probably let his horn go for a Selmer ;-)
 

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I don’t think that the case should be the dealbreaker and as for the price being high, yes, it is, but as a shop keeper here used to say: “ Find me another one”.

All tings being equal a Silversonic should be more expensive than any Super 20 and frankly speaking at €6000 the Super 20 is even more overpriced than the Silversonic.

These horns have a very limited market and buyers don’t grow on trees these days.

Personally I’d go to Heidelberg and negotiate with the Silversonic seller (use the case argument but frankly speaking you can find cases but not quite so easily saxophones that look that way!).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I see your point, Milandro, and it reminds me of the fact that a Silversonic is, in the first place, for collectors rather than players. I had a 1948 Super 20 which I only sold to a player from the Netherlands because I could not become familiar with the ergonomics (left hand table) of a Series I. I loved the core sound of the Super 20, but have in fact never played a Silversonic. So I can't judge the difference the silver bell makes. BTW, that 1948 Super 20 with original case went for just 900 EUR less than the (much preferred) Series II 315xxx which is offered in Paris. So I don't think they're asking way to much with a little room left for an optional negotiation.
 

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The silver bell won’t make any difference to the sound past the individual difference that every horn has to another. But it is a n object of beauty, especially a two tone silver bell.

My experience is that these horns are all difficult to sell . I acquired my Eastlake Super 20 (a sax I would never part with) from a person whom had tried to sell it for ages and couldn’t (in the NL) and I exchanged it with a SA 80 II alto.

It was the best deal (for me) that I have ever had. By the way, I had the original case and I sold the case because it only took space in my home. I never used it.
 

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the best cure for de-cluttering is to move to a different place. I have done that twice in the last two years and have been confronted several times with objects that I kept just for the sake of keeping.
 

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indeed, very nice and nice price too, but very important to know that importing a sax costing $6,000 into the EU will result in the certain 21% of VAT + an undetermined “ handling through customs “ fee charged by postal service or couriers (let alone the fees to insure the shipment from the US of such a valuable instrument).

Also consider that since this morning the Euro, due to crisis concerning the Turkish lira and its exposition with European banks, the Euro is at an all time low against all the other currencies (perhaps only the pound is doing worse). :(

today the exchange rate is $6,000 = €5,270

Which probably would make a trip to the states worth its while to go and pick it up.
 

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indeed, very nice and nice price too, but very important to know that importing a sax costing $6,000 into the EU will result in the certain 21% of VAT + an undetermined “ handling through customs “ fee charged by postal service or couriers (let alone the fees to insure the shipment from the US of such a valuable instrument).

Also consider that since this morning the Euro, due to crisis concerning the Turkish lira and its exposition with European banks, the Euro is at an all time low against all the other currencies (perhaps only the pound is doing worse). :(

today the exchange rate is $6,000 = €5,270

Which probably would make a trip to the states worth its while to go and pick it up.
Ouch, wasn't aware of all the extra charges! That's a shame. I've told this story before but I stupidly sold my super 20 tenor (not a silver sonic) and regretted it. Then I saw it on Brian's website and immediately bought it back. And though I thought it played great before, when I got it back from Brian the difference in how it played was rather amazing. So Brian isn't kidding when he says it's properly set up. It does make a huge difference. So that's a consideration. Mine is a very early super 20 and it has that dark chocolate patina and it's just a monster horn. But I can see how that exchange rate sucks plus all the other charges. Still though, knowing it's going to be set up correctly is a real positive.
 

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well, even with the extra Value Added tax (virtually any item above €20 imported in the EU would be subject to VAT , which is not an import tax as such, in pactice this is mostly applied to large, insured, parcels) and the other fees, it would still be worth it, but the best thing would be to go there in person and bring the horn with you as you come back).
 

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well, even with the extra Value Added tax (virtually any item above €20 imported in the EU would be subject to VAT , which is not an import tax as such, in pactice this is mostly applied to large, insured, parcels) and the other fees, it would still be worth it, but the best thing would be to go there in person and bring the horn with you as you come back).
Yes, it would most certainly be worth the trip. That's excellent advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If you leave the EU and come back with a horn, you will be in trouble if you do not declare this at customs. You might be lucky and pass the check without any problems, but if you don't, they will ask for a proof this was your horn before you left the EU. In any case, you will be very nervous when the plane touches down. I remember the story of a guy coming back from the States with a vintage Fender Stratocaster guitar and a bill of 150 USD. The customs guy was a dedicated guitar player and just smiled when he saw the bill.
 

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If you leave the EU and come back with a horn, you will be in trouble if you do not declare this at customs. You might be lucky and pass the check without any problems, but if you don't, they will ask for a proof this was your horn before you left the EU. In any case, you will be very nervous when the plane touches down. I remember the story of a guy coming back from the States with a vintage Fender Stratocaster guitar and a bill of 150 USD. The customs guy was a dedicated guitar player and just smiled when he saw the bill.
Happened to a friend of mine who brought a $2000 trumpet in from New York and declared its value at something like $75. He was let off with a small fine and confiscation of the instrument.

Alternatively you can bring instruments across the Atlantic hidden behind a special panel in the hull of a boat, then anchor off a little cove in Cornwall and bring them ashore on a moonless night and stash them in a cave, then send a comely wench in a low cut bodice to pick it up for you the next morning while she's pretending to catch crabs.

That's what I do anyway.
 
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