[JohnMarkPainter]

Other than "practice more"?

I think I want a Tone Edge (or two) and maybe a smaller tip opening Super Tone Master.

I am a part time player multi instrumentalist. I don't play or practice often enough.
My playing is almost completely recording.
I listen to Stan Getz, Lou Donaldson, Sonny Stitt...I love Stax/Muscle Shoals era.
Most of my work is knocking off soul horns, dumb rock (alt rock), cartoonish stuff, some smooth sectional work.
I have friends that I can call when I need REAL players (or songs that are in sketchy keys

I am a better Trumpet player than Sax.
I have good ears, am a good general musician, but only know enough about Sax to a danger to myself (and others).
I tend to use what I have. Every now and then, I reassess what I have to see if something is FIGHTING against me.

Instruments: Conn 10M (post naked) Tenor, 70's Bundy Alto and 70's painted Bari

Grovenor ligs and usually 2 1/2 Reeds.

Alto:
Otto Link Tone Edge 6*, Metalite M7
I love the Otto Link tone.
Sounds very retro. Super easy to play. Maybe too easy.
I use it for smooth group parts mostly. Occasionally melody lines.
The Metalite of course is BRIGHT. I only use it for brash sections when I am doubling Trumpet lines or just need a higher part above Tenor.

Bari:
Metalite M7, M9 and the unlabeled "France" that came with the horn.
The generic mouthpiece is easier to play. I only use it for smoother parts.
I bought M9 accidentally and recently got an M7.
Intonation is much easier on the M7.
Tone-wise, people I work for tend to like edgy Muppet Show tone
I WOULD like to find a good smooth Bari mouthpiece.
I might already have what I need with the generic but I will keep my eyes open for a good deal on a Tone Edge.

TENOR:
Rousseau 3R, Fatcat .102, Otto Link Super Tone Master 8*
The Rousseau only gets used if I am doing an oddball very retro harmony thing. I want to replace it
The Fatcat oddly has a lot of midrange. It has been my default but that might change.
The STM feels more difficult to play AT FIRST. But if I keep playing, I forget all of that and it isn't bad.
The STM has a scooped tone. More highs and way more lows than the Fatcat.
I tend to be more 'airy' on the STM.
I think I sound "more expensive" on the STM tonally.

I have a Metalite M7 coming in the mail as an experiment.
I probably shouldn't be playing an 8*
I bought 8* STM randomly at a store that was going out of business about 20 years ago.
I didn't know anything about what "8*" meant. I just knew was a 'nice mouthpiece'.
If the M7 feels way better, I might move off of the STM.
I am curious to hear the tone difference between the STM and the Metalite (on ME).

SO
I am very interested in getting a Tenor Tone Edge.
It would be great to pair with my Alto.
Any advice on whether I should get an 6* like my Alto or be more standard and get a 7?
My Fatcat is a .102. Is that about an equivalent to a 7?

THANKS!
I know this a complicated topic and varies greatly from player to player.
What do you think based on my info?

John

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

One other detail....
I also use mouthpiece swaps when I am stacking a part with the same horn.
Makes me sound like a different player

 

[click]

You could try Ebolins, perhaps.

They do not cost much, and make good blanks.

You could get an alto and a tenor for about the same as a single tone edge.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

Hit me up if you want a good deal on an 8* STM USA
I learned something today...I shouldn't have an 8*

I got an M7 Metalite in the mail. SO much easier to play.
Baby steps

 

[rzzzzz]

limited experience with Link, though my main tenor piece is a 7* STM. after laying off it too long, there is definitely an adjustment period of rebuilding Link chops. great sound, but there's a lot to be said for easy.

 

[Oric Muso]

The 8* is too wide by the sound of things. I would guess you would be happier on a 7 or 6*.
I'm not a fan of Rico mouthpieces. I don't enjoy playing on them and don't like the sound. Some people do however and if you like it then stick with it.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

The smaller diameter is definitely a factor.
I'd never really broken that down.

I found a good deal on a 7* Tone Edge.
I think I am going to keep an eye out for a 6* or 7* STM.

The Metalite is funny. At first it sounded REALLY harsh.
I lowered the Reed a bit and it made a drastic difference.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

It is possible that the Tone Edge could end up being my "good" mouthpiece and I just use the Metalite when I need edge.
I'm not capable of doing edgy lead stuff and it would just be for punchy section parts.

 

[click]

The Metalite is funny. At first it sounded REALLY harsh.
I lowered the Reed a bit and it made a drastic difference.

How did you "lower" your reed?

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

The tip of reed to tip of mouthpiece alignment.

 

[click]

Here is what Santy Runyon said [https://www.saxontheweb.net/Learning/SantyReeds2.html] How does your process differ? It sounds as though you are letting more of the mouthpiece tip show to improve your results with the Metalite.

"Getting back to putting the reed on the mouthpiece in the right way--I had mentioned that the larger the facing the farther over the tip of the mouthpiece the reed should be placed to compensate for the shortening of the reed that occurs as the reed follows the curve of the mouthpiece facing. If the reed (when you press it down) covers the entire tip rail, you will observe that the tone becomes clearer and more solid--even a little darker. In turning the mouthpiece around (looking at the top of the mouthpiece), and pressing the reed down with the finger, you should see a miniscule hairline of the reed sticking out. It also tells you if the tip of the mouthpiece has been shaped to fit the contour of the reed properly. However, the tips of the reeds are not all the same, so it really doesn't matter as long as the reed covers the entire tip rail. If it only covers a tiny amount of the tip rail--result--squeaks, no doubt."

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

I'll give that a try.
My comfort zone is just based on experimentation.

Comparing my mouthpieces, the geometry of the tip is very different on the Metalite from my STM and my Fatcat.
So the tip of the reed is NOT shaped to fit all three of them.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

Here is what Santy Runyon said [https://www.saxontheweb.net/Learning/SantyReeds2.html] How does your process differ? It sounds as though you are letting more of the mouthpiece tip show to improve your results with the Metalite.

"Getting back to putting the reed on the mouthpiece in the right way--I had mentioned that the larger the facing the farther over the tip of the mouthpiece the reed should be placed to compensate for the shortening of the reed that occurs as the reed follows the curve of the mouthpiece facing. If the reed (when you press it down) covers the entire tip rail, you will observe that the tone becomes clearer and more solid--even a little darker. In turning the mouthpiece around (looking at the top of the mouthpiece), and pressing the reed down with the finger, you should see a miniscule hairline of the reed sticking out. It also tells you if the tip of the mouthpiece has been shaped to fit the contour of the reed properly. However, the tips of the reeds are not all the same, so it really doesn't matter as long as the reed covers the entire tip rail. If it only covers a tiny amount of the tip rail--result--squeaks, no doubt."

THANKS for posting that link.
Those are great articles. I need to do some reading.
I have again confirmed that I shouldn't have the 8*.
I can play it ok with a 1 1/2 but I am working too hard.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

Learning

I got a Tone Edge 7 today. I can finally get ‘that tone’. Happy

Meta lite sounds like a Kazoo.

I have a 6* Super Tone Master coming soon. That will be interesting to see if it bumps off my Fatcat

 

[whaler]

I have a Tone Edge and STM, both 6’s. It just feels like my wheelhouse.
The New Vintage Tone Edges are good and not expensive. The later Tone Edges aren’t that great. They tend to be tubby and unfocused..

 

[Grumps]

What your mouthpieces should be telling you is that it's the *****, not the arrow. And no mouthpiece is going to compensate for how far you're spread out.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

What your mouthpieces should be telling you is that it's the *****, not the arrow. And no mouthpiece is going to compensate for how far you're spread out.

"Spread out" meaning attempting to play too many instruments? If so...yes, fully aware. Been kicking that horse for many years.Or do you mean something else?

As for the ***** not the arrow...I'm also good at Archery. The shooter skill has to be there, but it all doesn't matter if your arrow is bent, weighs too much, wrong material...

 

[Grumps]

"Spread out" meaning attempting to play too many instruments? If so...yes, fully aware. Been kicking that horse for many years.Or do you mean something else?

No, not something else. That's it. And note that I'm not on you for that... wanting to play multiple instruments. You're honest about it and do so for recording purposes, correct? It's just that a mouthpiece will only get you so far. Yeah, you need a good one... but folks come here all the time and get caught up in the equipment hunt. Next thing they're buying, trying, and then comes the ultimate "Review" they've been dying to post since they got here. It's a path well traveled here and it never makes anyone a better player. Just a better customer.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

YEP.
What’s funny is that I have been teaching at a local university (NOT SAX) and give the kids the same lecture.
Any instrument is meant to be a ‘way of life’ rather than something you store in the closet and play once in a while.
I always make a distinction between people that really play and people that can sort of play as long as you stick to certain keys and registers

In my case, I just need to find my comfort zone and make sure I’m not choosing gear that is fighting back against me.

 

[JohnMarkPainter]

And a funny thing to watch...
Try playing French Horn, Tuba and Bari Sax in the same afternoon (not recommended)