[motteatoj]

Anyone seen this before?
There is a "/" before the A for Alto on this silver Conn.
First I have seen, Brian has seen before but we are not sure what it might mean.
Fairly rare (I have now stared at a LOT of serial numbers).

Seems like a very odd 'mistake' as this is not even a symbol used very often on their serial area markings.

https://www.dcsax.com/products/conn-6m-transitional-262-xxx-alto-saxophone-original-silver-plate-overhauled?_pos=1&_sid=37c4f2f2d&_ss=r

 

[turf3]

Either a mistake (they wouldn't scrap the horn body for something like that, and as deep as those stamps are, you're not going to buff it out); or a temp code for something in the factory (for example, you stamp the slash on the first 100 pcs. made with some new piece of tooling).

I wouldn't assume that the factory was interested in how collectors 90 years after the fact would interpret the markings on the horn.

 

[turf3]

Either a mistake (they wouldn't scrap the horn body for something like that, and as deep as those stamps are, you're not going to buff it out); or a temp code for something in the factory (for example, you stamp the slash on the first 100 pcs. made with some new piece of tooling).

I wouldn't assume that the factory was interested in how collectors 90 years after the fact would interpret the markings on the horn.

 

[JayeLID]

I wouldn't assume that the factory was interested in how collectors 90 years after the fact would interpret the markings on the horn.

It makes it very rare now...

 

[turf3]

"Rare" and "worth more money" are not always the same thing.

 

[Guto]

If there is more than one with same marking I doubt that'd be a mistake. Interesting nonetheless.

Did you notice the adjustable thumb rest. First I'm seeing one like this. Is that common to a period in time?

This must be a nice playing horn given how much the lacquer is worn, but at the same it looks in great shape, well taken care of.

 

[turf3]

The adjustable thumb rest was on the 6M for a period before the war.

The lacquer's worn so much it's down to the silver plating.

 

[zapatista]

The adjustable thumb rest was on the 6M for a period before the war.

The lacquer's worn so much it's down to the silver plating.

If only they lacquered them in the past like they do now.

 

[Guto]

oops my bad, I meant the silver plating is worn of course.

If only they lacquered them in the past like they do now.

King did it on their Silversonic and silver necks. Those finishes don't age well when the lacquer gets scratched and the exposed silver tarnishes in contrast with the area still covered with lacquer. I believe modern lacquer is quite more resilient.

 

[motteatoj]

If there is more than one with same marking I doubt that'd be a mistake. Interesting nonetheless.

Did you notice the adjustable thumb rest. First I'm seeing one like this. Is that common to a period in time?

This must be a nice playing horn given how much the lacquer is worn, but at the same it looks in great shape, well taken care of.

Could be that Brian saw the same one, not sure.

 

[bruce bailey]

oops my bad, I meant the silver plating is worn of course.

King did it on their Silversonic and silver necks. Those finishes don't age well when the lacquer gets scratched and the exposed silver tarnishes in contrast with the area still covered with lacquer. I believe modern lacquer is quite more resilient.

On my Zephyr Special with the silver necek, I removed the lacquer over the silver, leaving the brass spots that are gold lacquered. It looks great now.

 

[PigSquealer]

Looks like a Monday morning mark.

 

[Mike T]

Did you notice the adjustable thumb rest. First I'm seeing one like this. Is that common to a period in time?

The adjustable thumb rest was a feature added to the 6M in the period of transition from the old NWII alto, but was eliminated from the final design for the 6m Artist. You'll notice that this particular machine still has the old NWII microtuner with the double knurl, but has gained the new design for the LH palm keys, as well as the new raised, angled high E key. It has the original design for the new LH little finger table with thw broad end of the G# key pointing forward; the design of this key was later reversed on the 6M, so that the narrow end of the touche pointed forward. I prefer the original configuration.

I like the adjustable thumb rest, and have never understood why they did away with it. In fact, this transitional model is my favourite alto.

 

[turf3]

It has the original design for the new LH little finger table with thw broad end of the G# key pointing forward; the design of this key was later reversed on the 6M, so that the narrow end of the touche pointed forward. I prefer the original configuration..

Yeah, why they flipped that around is a mystery (the 10M never got flipped around). I found my little finger slipping off the pointy end and soldered a flat piece of metal on top of it.

My guess on why the adjustable thumb rest went away is $$$. Of course they retained the G# trill that no one ever uses, so who knows?

Honestly, and I speak as a lifelong Conn player, Conn mechanics are all a bit string-and-sealing-wax compared to Buescher and Martin - especially Martin, whose stuff feels like fine machinery. Selmer, too, has that feel of really well made machinery. Conns and Holtons seem like the guys on the line made a lot of ad hoc decisions day by day.

 

[paulwl]

Conn used various codes as part of its serial numbers, besides those on top and bottom. We will never know but I imagine most of them were meant to go in company files to help track sales data.

M meant saxophone. It was at the front of every Conn sax serial from 1924-'36. Saxes were the biggest part of Conn's business in these years - certainly during the '20s. So it helped to know how many were selling vs other instruments.

A meant alto saxophone. It was at the back of every Conn alto serial from 1932-'36. Altos were the biggest seller among saxes, so it meant something to know how many of them sold vs other saxes.

X in back of a serial is rare but apparently meant an instrument that was not for sale, such as a trial model to be sent to dealers, schools and such. It might also sometimes have meant "experimental," but there are experimental models that don't have an X.

 

[paulwl]

Yeah, why they flipped that around is a mystery (the 10M never got flipped around). I found my little finger slipping off the pointy end and soldered a flat piece of metal on top of it.

In 1932 the new automatic pinkie table put the fat end of G# above low Bb. G#/Bb was a near-impossible transition with the old pinkies. But it's also a seldom used transition. So in 1936 the G# touch was reversed with the fat end over C#, a much more common transition.

Of course with automatic G#, you don't need a G# touch at all if the other keys will give it - it's just a convenience - but one players were used to having!

My guess on why the adjustable thumb rest went away is $$$. Of course they retained the G# trill that no one ever uses, so who knows?

It was never really adjustable because you couldn't fix it in position (unless you stuck wax or gum in there :/ ). It just swivels. Nice to have - I don't find it hangs me up in any way - but neither is it really needed.

Honestly, and I speak as a lifelong Conn player, Conn mechanics are all a bit string-and-sealing-wax compared to Buescher and Martin - especially Martin, whose stuff feels like fine machinery. Selmer, too, has that feel of really well made machinery. Conns and Holtons seem like the guys on the line made a lot of ad hoc decisions day by day.

My experience is mostly with Buescher and Conn - I feel Conn's M horns are more "engineered" in terms of keywork than the earlier Conns, and more so than Buescher Aristocrats during the 30s. It's a thing of machining tolerances and precision of fit.

 

[turf3]

X in back of a serial is rare but apparently meant an instrument that was not for sale, such as a trial model to be sent to dealers, schools and such. It might also sometimes have meant "experimental," but there are experimental models that don't have an X.

Interestingly, I had a totally ordinary 10M tenor with an "X" serial number.

 

[StuartSax]

X in back of a serial is rare but apparently meant an instrument that was not for sale, such as a trial model to be sent to dealers, schools and such. It might also sometimes have meant "experimental," but there are experimental models that don't have an X.

Hey Paul, have you been able to determine the X stamp meaning with certainty? The last time we discussed it, we were only at the hypothesis stage.

For those who have never seen the X horns, here's one that I had and sold to Leon. There was a second tenor a few numbers away that also surfaced here in Florida a few years ago. Sold on eBay.

 

[turf3]

That's exactly like my 10M looked. As far as I can remember it was a totally ordinary 10M, right down to the incurable warble on low D through F. If there was anything experimental about it, it was well hidden.

I'd suggest the X was put in the factory to indicate something like the horn was reworked, or as a form of lot control (for example, you mark X on the last 200 with component A from vendor B, and then discontinue when you start using component A from vendor C).

 

[PigSquealer]

SN dates to 1946/47 post war. What patent had they applied for at that time era ?