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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
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5,528 Posts
Well it is good to hear of a possible positive outcome.
No positive outcome yet. I'm still waiting for those photos and the discussion about when the sax will be finished. And the day is getting late.
 

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Premium Member
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11,597 Posts
Admin Note

I would like to request people that are not directly involved in these matters to abstain themselves from chiming in – This thread is not a debate – and your opinions and experiences, as valid as they may be, are only personal to yourself and do not necessarily reflect those of the victims, therefore only creating diversion from the topic.

Thank you for your understanding
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member
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Hopefully folks will have good enough sense not to ship off their horns along with payment up front to a vendor that does not have all the necessary support fabrication equipment ready to use; your optimism notwithstanding.
Everything I wanted done was possible with existing tooling, but made easier/better by trying new things. I was fully aware of this as well as potential delays.

I thought things would move along much faster than they have, but am fine with waiting a bit longer for a better finished product. If that doesn't happen, feel free to laugh at my lack of good sense.
 

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506 Posts
***? collateral remark? Deleted? I thought this forum was about sharing opinions. My post was NOT offensive or inappropriate! Ive read hundreds of MartinMods posts that were very offensive that never got deleted. Jeez guys...
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
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5,528 Posts
Okay,

Lance has provided the follow photos. This does appear to be my 12M. I see I few signs on the keywork that were probably unique to my particular sax. I'm not sure that is my new ProTech case, but Lance admits he's not sure either.

I've asked Lance for an estimated completion date with a scope of work we can both live with, along with regular updated photos. I will let you know how that goes. My concern on this will not subside until there is on-going proof that I will be getting my sax back at a specified time.

There is still hope that this is just an expectation issue between Lance and I. And I hope that is the case for me and others. I will keep you updated. And here's the pics I got. I ask that others dealing with Lance on this same issue please post your photos too.







 

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Forum Contributor 2011, SOTW's pedantic pet rodent
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8,322 Posts
Great news Enviroguy. Well done Lance...great. Seb, CH....i hope you get similar real soon...a
I think "great news, well done Lance" might be pushing it a bit, adrian. If that was my sax lying on a piece of soggy builders' board after 18 months I wouldn't be breaking open the champagne just yet. I suppose at least it's under cover.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
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frankly speaking I think that paying upfront anybody who has to provide a service almost always results in the person who has to provide the service of not being motivated to finish the service that they have to provide. The incentive in not there and the money has been spent and long forgotten. All it is keeping the deal alive is the integrity of the service provider who would have to have a schedule which would respect the order in which the the work was accepted and paid. What happens is that things get in between, someone comes with some more cash for something quick so the work gets placed onto the back-burner pretty soon it is in the way and gets moved about and after a while you don't know anymore what is what, parts are lost , cases are swapped and you might even forget entirely where you have put what and which items belong to whom. Add to this the moving of an entire workshop with a certain amount of half begun horns and anyone can understand that what you end up with is a complete mess.

In this case, it would take a very big man to say : " Sorry I cocked up, I don't know exactly if I still have all the bits and bobs that belong to the horn that you've sent me and I realise that I've had it in my possession for 2 years , I will make this up to you either in work or giving you back some of the money that you gave me, in case you agree in leaving your horn with me we agree upon an irrevocable date within which I will give you back the saxophone fixed or I will return the parts and pay you damages for all that it is missing"..........

But his would be a big man who is not afraid to admit to have been an *** and would acknowledge and admit the situation and do something to put it right , any other way is making excuse I always say that , in business, but also other things in life, any phrase beginning with " Yes, BUT......." is essentially wrong.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member
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Discussion Starter · #152 ·
So guys,

for months I've been trying to get my horn back even asking to send me back as it was.. it means... destroyed.
I was in touch with the Admin here ALL THE TIME.
The admin intended/wished to put it clear already in October 2010 but we were agree together with other SOTW members who are not taking part on this debate by now (I don't know why, maybe they are not around, vacation and so on) to not do so giving Lance chance to resolve the situation. WE all were pretty kind to Lance Burton. Every time he answered the customers felt being kid.
I tried until the last moment and I always asked the admnin, PLEASE, GIVE SOME TIME or we will lost our horns.

At last after a long run and with my nerves exhausted seeing that I was about to lost my horn because I was about to move to Africa , I talked to my relative in CA and transferred him legally the ownership of the horn. And don't doubt we did it correctly, Eric is a former member of the Law enforcement and understands well how to do this.

So. Now, Lance was doing with him the same.
No pardon, no more time of clemency, he got enough.

Next time some "friends" in black will be knocking on your door Lance.

Everybody else sending his horn to him should get ready to miss it for a looooong time.
Until Eric and I see the horn again it is being considered as "lost" , by Lance Burton.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
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5,443 Posts
Personally, it looks to me as tho kpc and others are putting in overtime on a very difficult and extremely unpleasant job dealing with this thread. Best wishes and good luck.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician
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26,850 Posts
I think at this point it might be prudent to inquire as to whether or not the premises where the horns were kept were susceptible to flooding or other water damage; especially if that case really is Enviroguy's new Protec.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician
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26,850 Posts
So long as the commentary of others is measured, the staff will let it stand. In the past when consumer issues came to light in regard to other vendors, defenders would often join in on a thread to make such a mess of it the thread would have to be closed. They're just trying to avoid that from both sides with their plea to refrain from making comments if you're not directly affected, as it's obvious they feel this is an important issue.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
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5,528 Posts
The main reason that I posted to this thread about my problems was because of the positive things that could be gained here. I like lists, so here we go:

1. This is a chance to air my problem before an audience of our piers - This allows those with knowledge of instrument repair, industry standards, legal matters and even good manners to judge what is going on.

2. In light of the reaction here, it helps bring both parties closer to one set of expectations. And face it, the most positive motive for Lance is that he had very different expectations than I had. And I will operate on that assumption until it is otherwise indicated.

3. It allows Lance to defend himself. And in fairness, I plan to post anything positive that happens behind the scenes. This way, everyone gets credit for doing the right thing.

4. I and others get our saxophones back in a more timely fashion. If we take Lance at his word, it looks like our saxophones were shelved in order for Lance to finish developing several new procedures and methods that no one has seen before. Once he has these worked at, he would then finish our horns and send them out to us so we could all say wow and sing Lance's praises. The concern with all this is that this process has taken way too long. And at least in my case, Lance gave an original completion date to me because I needed the saxophone back in order to perform with. Those that just donated there saxophones to Lance for experimentation with no expectation of a return, might one day greatly benefit from lengthy experimentation. But on the other hand, it just leaves me without a bari sax to play.

Lance and I have been discussing all of this and I hope he understands. I will keep everyone updated because I believe honest business between honest people can easily withstand the light of day.
 

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Premium Member
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Admin Note

Once again I’d like to reiterate my previous Admin Note – I’d like to stress that changing the topic by making this about the forum staff, yourself or about anyone that is not directly involved in this matter, you are creating a diversion and not helping the victims and/or the matter to get resolved.

Please, stay on topic.
Thanks
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member
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2,073 Posts
I've never interacted with martinmods or any of those with an axe to grind in this thread...I haven't got a martin or conn so I probably would have no reason to interact with Lance...but I keep coming back to this thread like a moth to a porch light, and here's why--every time I log on and check this thread, I see that "martinmods" is also viewing the thread...and yet he never responds to any of the questions. It's embarassing to take a verbal beating in public, but it's another to be an honest adult, state your claim (not case) to your community of use, and move on from there, and so far, it doesn't seem like he's done anything but add narrative that has further mystified both those with a dog in the race, and those of us (like me) who are just casual spectators.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2012
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4,370 Posts
I'm thinking we may have to add another name to the SOTW Hall of Shame......Dave Guardala, Steve Goodson, and Lance Burton.....WARNING:the money/sax you lose may be your own:blackeye::innocent02::arrgh:!
 
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