WARNING: Lance Burton At MartinMods Will Not Finish Or Return Our Saxophones

Maddenma,

I understand if you have mistaken this for the standard knee jerk reaction dealer evaluation sort of laundry airing. However I can assure you that this has been a veritable campaign for this rather lengthy list of customers, and their coming forward publicly is in no way jumping the gun in this instance.

A few comments slipped between the cracks that sent the thread off track momentarily, but these were quickly edited out by the staff. I didn't for a minute think that this was going to be a trouble free conversation.[rolleyes]

No intention was made to maliciously defame or mudsling for sport. Rather, these people want their damned horns back after years of waiting. Don't be mistaken into believing the story that they all commissioned Lance to have the wheel reinvented. Many simply wanted some tweaking of the keywork. Alterations were even made without their consent in a few cases.

Addressing one of Lance's comments earlier, I am in fact experienced in overhauling, restoring and modifying horns myself, and much of the work commissioned and yet to be completed doesn't involve completely rebuilding the horn. A two year turn around time is completely unreasonable in those cases, especially since this was not made at all clear to the owners beforehand. If there was a full understanding between both parties about this, that would be another story.

God forbid they needed them as working musicians within a reasonable turn around time! Jim Schmidt takes less time to totally scratch build one of his custom horns.

A musician has to be pretty desperate to retrieve their horns when they beg the tech to just keep the money, and return the horn in parts.

Finish the horns and return them to the owners Lance, and much if not all of the problem will be resolved. They haven't even been assured of that....yet. If ever there was a time and place to clear the air, and make amends, this is it.

If I wanted to just cut you off completely Lance, and wash the collective SOTW "hands" of you, I would have just posted this warning and banned your membership outright. I'm trying to work with all concerned to end this peacefully and amicably.

We all know that your are skilled and talented as a tech and designer. Your work is justifiably well regarded when it is actually received. The business end of things is very much amiss however.

All of this can still be made right, the ball is in your court.

I have a fairly large financial interest in all of this. So let me restate the problem in summary:

1. Lance has my horn and will not commit to a completion date even with a reduced scope of work.
2. Lance will not provide photos of my saxophone to demonstrate any ongoing work or to simply show he still had the sax.
3. The tactics he has used to pacify me over the last year and a half are the same ones reported by others. There is a strong pattern here.

All I want is proof Lance still has my sax, a finish date and my sax back in my hands by that finish date. I don't want diversions and photos of other people's saxes. And I don't want descriptions of work being done on other saxophones when mine goes untouched and unfinished. And conversely, I don't want this thread to be about accusing Lance of drug use or anything else that is just pure speculation. He could be a saint or a devil and I have know idea which and may never know. But he does have my sax, and I would love to get it back. I believe the others involved probably feel similar to this too.

This is Connhunter's thread so I will reply to him here.

Connhunter, we no longer have any business with one another. The new owner of the saxophone in question (as regards you) and I have been in contact. He stated that he was confident everything would turn out fine for him as am I.

Click to expand...

Aha.

That you caused me a lost of plenty of money is for you not important. You just don't care.

Ok.

What about writing public here your address and call number for customers as every other "normal" dealer here uses to do?

Why do you hid yourself? Why you never come to the fone when people call you?
Why do you modify horns without agreement of the owners? (by mine you put all pads down although they were all new Pisoni ones from a German overhauling, to put your own made pads)
Why you don't send proprietary back when asked for?

We have an open business with each other for sure I tell you. You lied on my face all the time, I always reacted as good guy. I even implored you PLEASE to send my beloved sax back, your answer was ...?

I quote you...
"Conn-hunter" you speak like a gay"!

it was your answer to me after more than 1 year waiting and making concessions because you were pretty keen to use my Conn as Lab, experimental.
You even put me under pressure to accept your ideas, one of them I regretted so much by closing the Fis Hole.

Once, you just told me...

quote...

"ahh, I am going to put the neck in the frige and then bend the neck in another angle"!

I said. HELP!!! STOP!!!!

Because the neck was original and in great shape. Nothing wrong with it but you needed an experimental horn.

The MPC's Wollf Taninbaum refaced for me and were in your custody to send back WITH THE HORN...
You were about to modify Wolf's work. I had again to stop it what made you more and more unsatisfied with my "no compliance".

So, I knew all the time, if I don't "cooperate" letting you do whatever you wish, I'd never get my horn back because you were using it as tool to force me to agree with your tests. Fact is, I don't have my horn any longer. Do I?

As I told you to send me the sax , what was your reaction?

You first said NO! I insisted and told you I'd have to take the plane just for visiting you and fit your mouth for a "dentist" visit!
Your answer?

I will send you the horn back but will take ALL I DID OUT OF THE HORN!

My reaction?

I quote myself...

"Well done. Got money paid in advance to destroy my expensive horn and now sending it back unplayable" I will tell the World what you are doing".

Your reaction? come on, give me 2 more weeks I'll finish the horn.

I waited 3 weeks, you just silenced.
I feared the worst and it came to pass, unfortunately.
I asked you what was going wrong? and you told me..

quote

I lost some parts of the horn. Cups and rods and...
and this after telling me that the horn just needed to be aligned and polished because it were almost finished. Lies, just lies. Why do a man lie? I know the answer but we may not comment this issue here. Just think on your own brother Lance, you know what I am speaking about.

Now, the time has come and I , in opposite of you, am keeping my word.

The new owner is being treated the same way and our agreement between YOU AND ME was...

NOT TO DISAPPOINT THE new owner and give him the horn in time as promised.

Since you are doing so (He needed the horn for the last NAMM and you promised him to finish the horn to end of Dec/10) ... (to me you promised to Oct/ than Nov/ then... Oppss!! I lost many parts! sorry. But don't worry. There are worst things in life, you told me.)

... we still have a business old man.

Finish the horn and give it to EricM, he's waiting long for it.

Even if you manage to put it to play again you ARE NOT TO BE FORGIVEN FOR LOSING PARTS of this horn , even many of them.

yeah.

Now, stop hiding yourself. Show yourself to the world.

What is your address?
Put your pic on the internet.
Show your face.

I agree with everyone else who thinks that this is a beneficial and important thread rather than a witch hunt. It's particularly important because it involves someone who has the "Distinguished Technical Innovator" label attached to their profile, and because there are hundreds of potential "customers" here who might be inclined to take that as some sort of endorsement from SOTW that he's reliable and safe to deal with. Clearly, a number of people who have dealt with him are starting to think otherwise, and that's a good thing for ALL potential customers to know. On the other hand...he's being given fair opportunity to publicly address the complaints against him...which if he can do to everyone's satisfaction...INCLUDING that of potential future customers...will be as much to his own advantage as to anyone else. The ball has been in his court since the beginning of this thread...(and apparently even much longer than that). Under the circumstances...I think ALL of us at SOTW as potential customers of goods and services deserve to know how this plays out. There's more at stake than mere voyeuristic interest...and for that reason, I hope this thread isn't closed before resolution is seen. Hopefully, the resolution will be a positive one.

If I have a financial interest on this case? ha.
This guy toke my horn and didn't send me back after request.

Imagine, you send your girlfriend to a "good" physician to be checked.
The "doctor" neglects to send your girlfriend back, he still needs to make some more tests with her.

Hey! Stop. I send her to be checked and treated.
Don't modify her back or hair or breasts. I like her as she is in general, just tackle the issues spoken.

Your girlfriend is still there until today and you have to look for another one. But if you really love her you won't get comforted until you see her in good health again.
How would you feel??
If you could, you would get there and take her back by force and at first call the FBI.
That is the reason that this BUSINESS is still open between me and Lance. He toke from me my girlfriend is still keeping her and nobody knows how is she doing.

Man, I tell you. It breaks my heart to know that my sax which I treated so carefully along the years is sitting now by a "doctor" without diploma. Maybe being mistreated right now, or just running to seed on a corner.

This my dear colleagues is called kidnapping and is a case for the FBI already.

Well, as to be expected this turned out to be a regular can of worms and the more you stir it the more worms are there to be seen.

SOTW is regularly used by a number of people, to openly sell their services or products and MartinMods has done that for a very long time. There is , in itself, nothing wrong with this. Many wouldn't know of certain brands of saxophones or mouthpieces if it wasn't for SOTW and most of these people advertising their services and products on the forum don't even have a banner on it. So, participating to a forum like SOTW with its the vast membership is a good investment because it generates business for free but this comes, at the very least with some obligations, if not a price, and that is absolute integrity and transparency.

Once a technician or the vendor of any product places himself in this glass house they need to realise that all they do, write and say is, and rightly so, subject to the entire forum scrutiny and more so by those who carry authority on the forum. That is the price of free advertising .

I have rarely seen this forum mods and administrators, being so concerned that the activity of someone who has been selling his products and services to other members using the forum as a promotional medium (and giving his learned information and expertise in return, that has to be said too......) has placed them in the awkward position to intervene to defend the interest of those who have been damaged and prevent even more future damage.