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Even poor commercial acumen can be made up by goodwill and readiness to make up for mistakes. Anybody can be making mistakes in good faith but if a professional starts making silly excuses then a customer will be right to think that there might have been no good faith to start with.
I believe this is true that anyone of us can underestimate the difficulty of a repair, or the time and cost it will take to accomplish. There are other variables too such as illness, personal and financial difficulties, and competing demands on our time that can effect our ability to follow through and return work on the date promised.

What seems to separate those tradesmen in these circumstances that can happen to anyone, even those with good intentions, is that some people are honest and upfront with the customer right from the beginning. They honestly describe the situation, tell how they are working to make it right, and communicate with the customer honestly and openly throughout the process.

Then there are those who make untrue statements, false claims, bogus excuses, and give evasive answers to questions or no answers at all. These folks get huffed up and indignant if anyone suggests they have done something wrong, and blame everyone but themselves.

It is a matter of honesty versus dishonesty and ethical versus unethical. It is not what happens that separates the two types of individuals, but how each chooses to deal with the situation. Trust, once lost, is gone forever in the business world, at least as far as I am concerned.

The most prized possessions of any man are his word , honour and reputation, if one fails to stand by his word one could rightly loose the other two.
Well spoken.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009
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I'm frustrated by this situation too, but urge caution -- references to drug use or alcohol use or meth or the like are probably to be avoided unless you have some real proof. Saying someone has poor customer service is one thing. Once you get into even suggestions of character flaws/drug use / etc, its best to tread very lightly. Just trying to help.
 

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Discombobulated SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 201
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I'm frustrated by this situation too, but urge caution -- references to drug use or alcohol use or meth or the like are probably to be avoided unless you have some real proof. Saying someone has poor customer service is one thing. Once you get into even suggestions of character flaws/drug use / etc, its best to tread very lightly. Just trying to help.
I agree people ought to lay off the drug/alcohol references, even in jest, and focus on the main issue at hand, getting people their horns back.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2014
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I posted that reply to Enviroguy specifically, obviously. It was not intended to satisfy anyone else.
I dont know Lance and have never done business with him but from the outside looking in, that quote sounds like "OK I'm working on your horn Enviroguy, and for the rest I'm not telling". That doesn't make me feel good.
 

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Admin Note

The forum staff allowed this thread to take place in order to enable the victims to come forward and state their experience and, hopefully, provide Lance the opportunity to make things right – We allow this discussion to go on as long as it remain civil. I’m afraid that allegations to drug/alcohol abuse and/or other similar personal judgment are not really helping to maintain a climate that’s suitable for discussion or problem resolution oriented.

Thank you for your understanding.
 

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In an effort to be fair to Lance, I know this hasn't been easy and I'm guessing he is trying just to get by and get this all off his bench. It's not easy to do this, something I learned in a very real way when I came to work for Ted Klum. I have worked with him until the sun has come up on more than one occasion to get a large order out. Before that he was doing everything virtually by himself with no regular full-time help. I can respect that what Lance is trying to achieve is a high level of craftsmanship. I have no doubt of that.
However, I haven't asked for a refund or threatened legal action, I just want my horn with all it's parts mailed to me. I've even offered to pay for that.

These two things must be reconciled: what is trying to be accomplished is very very complex and required much time and skill and money, and I need my horn back.

I am sure that when all of this is said and done, Lance will go ahead to just sell horns as conversions at a reasonable price and have much better success, which I wish him.
 

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This is Connhunter's thread so I will reply to him here.

Connhunter, we no longer have any business with one another. The new owner of the saxophone in question (as regards you) and I have been in contact. He stated that he was confident everything would turn out fine for him as am I.
 

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Even if one or two approved your HIGHLY experimental modifications such as the one described here, not all of them commissioned or elected to have such radical work done. I know that more than a few simply wanted a few keys modified, yet their horns have been MIA for well over a year as well. We aren't talking rocket science, or at least the customers weren't anticipating such complexity when they commissioned the work.
If you think that a vintage horn/Mk6 conversion, with/without low a conversion, or even just a complete LH table key mod with original, handmade keys isn't the equivalent of rocket science, then you haven't done one yourself. I don't see anyone doing them. Using prefab keys doesn't count. That said, as every client knows, non of us anticipated the complexity nor the time that would be involved. It's a new product and a new process. I'm doing everything I can to meet all obligations.
 

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I know this might be ganging up and I'm sorry (this just seems very obvious to me), but if my horn was missing in action for over a year I would be like "Why is this guy posting on SOTW....Why isn't he working on my horn RIGHT NOW, THIS MINUTE, instead of sitting in front of the computer???
 

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Well. Good heavens. Firstly, well done Mike,you have kept this thread grounded. Milandro, as always excellent. Great quote. Lance, i dont know you man. My comment " these f***** " was foolish. I can say this. If you have got a problem. Please please come clean. I dont know if you have or have not...no implication nor offence intended. I am going on gut feeling. IF.....you have. Its time man. Please....adrian
 

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Please don't use me. :cry:
Sorry, didnt mean to take your name in vain. LOL. I see its been deleted and thats probably good. But, for the record, I was speaking about my own experiences and observations, not trying to imply anything else.
 

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Admin note:

I'm reopening this thread, but please, think BEFORE you post.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015
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Re: Admin note:

I'm reopening this thread, but please, think BEFORE you post.
This is a bunch of sax players posting here asking them to think first may be stretching expectations a tad. How about just don't post off key?
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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maddenma... would you have sent your bari to him, you'd be now joining us here as complainer.
Well, no, actually. The horn he supplied a custom pants guard to has actually been out for restoration for 9 months in the hands of a couple other well-respected techs on this site.

I have 2 other baris, not to mention a small gaggle of other horns, so it was understood from go that I'd prefer things were done carefully over quickly. Given the amount of work that was going to be required to restore this old girl, I knew it would take a back seat to more pressing tactical problems that kept the lights on for the tech.

Lance met my need and in a timely manner, as did 2 of the other 3 people that have been working on my project bari. I'm not expecting this horn back before a year is up, so perhaps it's possible the issue here is expectations that weren't properly communicated bilaterally, rather than the vitriol that's going on.
 

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Connhunter, we no longer have any business with one another. The new owner of the saxophone in question (as regards you) and I have been in contact. He stated that he was confident everything would turn out fine for him as am I.
This isn't really my fight, but to me this seems kinda sketchy. I think Connhunter atleast has a right to know what is going on. Have you proven that this is the case? If so I retract my comment.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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This isn't really my fight, but to me this seems kinda sketchy. I think Connhunter atleast has a right to know what is going on. Have you proven that this is the case? If so I retract my comment.
From the thread, it seems to me that Conn-hunter, for better or for worse, doesn't have a financial interest in this instrument any more, and hasn't for quite some time. Not intending to address anyone elses grievences, but Conn-hunter has NO RIGHTS regarding the status of an instrument he no longer owns, and while I'm expecting to take a little flack for this, he doesn't seem to have had any business opening this thread to begin with.
 
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