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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have a good sized photo of their Borgani "Vintage" that they could send me? There are many different versions of what "unlacquered" means and I want to show another manufacturer what I'm talking about. The photo on Borgani's web site is too small.

My email is richard.adams_at_innerphysique.com where _at_ = @ of course.

Also, does anyone have an opinion about a different unlacquered horn that they think looks better, or does anyone think the Borgani unlacquered look is a pile of pants (personally I like it, but what do I know :) )?

Thanks in advance

Rick
 

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Rick,

Personally I liked the look of all the Borgani models I saw and played....

Though of the unlaquered models I prefer the brushed to plain finish.

View attachment 1439

Picture courtesy of Saxophone Heaven....
 

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A "new" unlacquered horn looks almost exactly like a lacquered horn until you've handled it for at least several weeks and had your fingerprints develop the unlacquered patina seemingly craved by those with the UL's. When I tried silver, lacquered and unlacquered models of the Yamaha Custom 82Z at my local dealer, the only difference in appearance to me between the unlacquered and lacquered versions was the UL had a slightly brighter yellow hue and the seller said all the ones she'd seen look like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
goodsax said:
A "new" unlacquered horn looks almost exactly like a lacquered horn until you've handled it for at least several weeks and had your fingerprints develop the unlacquered patina seemingly craved by those with the UL's.
Heh I also thought it was as simple as that, but in fact there are several different types of finish that could be applied to the bare brass, eg the "brushed" finish that Alistair mentions and there are other possibilities that my manufacturer is asking if I want.

This is the finish I'm after...



...but it is also the biggest photo I can find of it. One of the other students at my jazz class has one, so I can take my camera along and I'm sure she won't mind me taking a few photos.
 

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Obviously, I misunderstood your request. To me, if you put a finish over the bare brass, it's no longer bare brass. It's brushed, it's antique, it'e lacquer, etc.
 

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An antiqued look is one thing, but bare brass never looks good. Perhaps it is all the polishing of cap badges and belt brasses in my army uniform half a century ago that puts me off, but I think there are better ways to present a nice new sax to the public.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
bbbouklas said:
did you get my pics??
Yup sure did, thanks for that. For some reason my "thank you" email to you is still sitting in my Outbox and refuses to leave. Apologies for that and please accept this thank you now instead!

Pinnman I reckon that would be enough to put me off bare brass too! Goodsax I appreciate your help, thanks man. I'm still deciding what's best to do. I'll take another look at my friend's Borgani on Monday and have a hard think. That Borgani of Alistair's looks good.
 

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Rick,

Unlacquered is unlacquered. If you want the finish in the photo then you have 2 options: Buy a vintage horn that has been played shedloads, or buy one that has been chemically stripped until the point where the chemical has not only worked on the lacquer, but on the brass itself. I've just finished stripping a practically new horn, and it's been sat on it's stand 'maturing' for the last week. It's going off nicely but will take years to get to the stage of the above pic.

Likewise, my Selmer tenor was stripped to bare brass a good while back, has been played, handled, left on it's stand to 'go off' but still bares little ressemblance to the pic above. That one is definately 'artificially' aged.

Check the following horn owned by SOTW's GenericGuy:

www.jasonharron.com/Bari01.JPG
www.jasonharron.com/Bari02.JPG
www.jasonharron.com/Bari04.JPG

Coat this horn with a thin layer of LQ, and you have the finish you are after. How it was done, and with what, I have no idea but it's not a natural patina.

Of course, there's always the 'vintage gold' Jubilee model:

http://www.tenormadness.com/productDetail.asp?productId=340
 

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Rick Adams said:
That Borgani of Alistair's looks good.
Rick, it's not mine.... The picture is from http://www.saxophoneheaven.com

I tried a number of Borganis there and they do look and sound great but settled on my Ref 36...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, I meant "...that Alistair was kind enough to link to from Saxophone Heaven" but it seemed simpler just to say "...of Alistair's" :)

Russ thanks for the info. I thought unlacquered was unlacquered until my manufacturer started asking me questions about it. That photo is of a new Borgani, not an old one, I will try to find out what they do to it! I've seen one in the flesh and it looks really good. I'm pretty sure they do something to it because the finish looked consistent over the whole thing, not uneven like I'd expect if it had been "worn in" over time. I'll ask my friend who owns one and if they don't know I'll email Borgani.

At the end of the day it's only a finish, so a different finish will also do just as well...
 

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Rick Adams said:
That photo is of a new Borgani, not an old one, I will try to find out what they do to it!
Yes Rick, I've seen a new one also. (I believe it was a Ponzol model) It was also 'artificially aged' but not uniform like the one above, which is absolutely beautiful. If you do find out how it's done, please let me know !!

I read somewhere that horns hung up and subjected to a sulphur or ammonia treatment come out quite similar.......time for some research methinks.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Russ said:
Yes Rick, I've seen a new one also. (I believe it was a Ponzol model) It was also 'artificially aged' but not uniform like the one above, which is absolutely beautiful. If you do find out how it's done, please let me know !!

I read somewhere that horns hung up and subjected to a sulphur or ammonia treatment come out quite similar.......time for some research methinks.
This is what the Borgani web site says about it (and I am not responsible for their punctuation ;) )...
The vintage instrument recreated in sound and look, through an artificial ageing process of the brass. A special saxophone with all the qualities of a vintage instrument plus a modern mechanics. Notice! As brand new, usual brass will be bright, but then after a while, it will progressively turn older.
I've sent them an email asking them how it's done but I'm not sure they'll be keen to tell me all their trade secrets (understandably). I reckon they've done a good job on it.

Anyone got any bright ideas?
 
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