[Skoothondjie]

I'll be off to bed soon. But before I go I would like to light a fire and see how far it went when I come back. :twisted:

Topic for discussion:
"When is something, especially saxes and sax accessories, "vintage" and when is something just plain "old"?"

Let the mudslinging begin!

Good night. :bluewink:

 

[SaxTMan]

one of sotw members on a thread said vintage/old is a sax older than me...for me that doesn't apply lol...
anyway... first i think a vintage sax means that is a quality horn... but that is a personal opinion, otherwise is just old... and it should be before the 80's...
but i would like to see other opinions too... although i don't think there is a right answer..

2 cents

 

[bandmommy]

"Vintage" is older than ME. YOB-1961. Or is that "Antique"...
It's all relative to your stage in life.

 

[Saxaholic]

Vintage is used to describe a material object that was made over 25 years ago.

Antique is used to describe a material object that was made 50 or more years ago.

That's always been my understanding of the definitions.

- Saxaholic

 

[PridgNYC]

I think of vintage as the provenance of an object, where and when it was made, who owned it, what was done to it, etc. it is just a description. It doesn't imply good or bad. "Old" is just 'old' it describes everything that is older than the observer.

 

[bruce bailey]

I tend to think of vintage in sax terms as being the last of the great horns from a maker. Perhaps Conn 6M, 10M before 1969, Bueschers to 1963, Kings until about 1970, all Martins, etc. So a MarkVI would be vintage but not a VII. All of this may just be hype too. Somehow a Maxtone sold as vintage would be suspect! For Antique, I would say anything really old not worth playing.
I prefer using none of the terms, just say a used horn.

 

[whaler]

A sax with split bell keys. It use to be that players would run from these. Old Conn and Buescher sopranos, next to impossible to play in tune and have an "old" sound that doesn't really work for anything but trad stuff. (my pet peeve is when guys show up to Dixieland gigs with a soprano).

 

[hgiles]

vintage old antique rustic archaic antiquated dated -- all a matter of whether you're the buyer or the seller!

 

[saxpiece]

Vintage is when the item is worth something.

Old is when the item is worth nothing.

 

[BlueTrane2028]

This is how I really look at it:

Vintage = before 1980 and playable. Bonus vintage points if it's particularly valuable.
Old = before 1980 and not playable. Bonus old points for missing parts and broken stuff.

 

[Starsax A2]

A 1969 Selmer Mark VI is vintage. A 1969 Selmer Bundy is old.

 

[tflanster]

I'll be off to bed soon. But before I go I would like to light a fire and see how far it went when I come back. :twisted:

Topic for discussion:
"When is something, especially saxes and sax accessories, "vintage" and when is something just plain "old"?"

Let the mudslinging begin!

Good night. :bluewink:

i started a thread on this about 3 - 4 months ago that resulted in zero. We all have our own thoughts about the word. In the strictest sense, "vintage" refers to year of manufacture. "Old" is, well, old. Its an indefinite term. I may be "old" because I'm older than you. An ad for a "Vintage Conn alto" is meaningless. But, "Vintage 1945 Conn" means something. It describes when the horn was built. I believe if you want to sell a horn or a car or a bottle of wine, you need to describe what you have for sale. Just saying "vintage" doesn't tell the buyer anything except perhaps that the item may be uh, old.

How about a "1999 vintage Selmer USA?" That tell you something. But "vintage Selmer USA?" Meaningless. The term was/is used to describe when a variety of wine grape was picked, crushed, bottled, etc. Its now used, incorrectly, IMO, to describe anything older than a couple days.

I have a "vintage Buescher soprano sax." What year is it? Well, if instead I wrote "1923 vintage Buescher soprano sax," you wouldn't have to ask.

 

[Jonathan C.]

Vintage is old and useful. Old isn't useful.

 

[JayeLID]

A 1969 Selmer Mark VI is vintage. A 1969 Selmer Bundy is old.

Nope.....the Bundy is vintage, too.....

 

[JayeLID]

Vintage is used to describe a material object that was made over 25 years ago.

Yup....25+ years = one generation = Vintage. You cannot call a '91 Yammy 'vintage'....quite yet. It will be some day. An '85 ? Yes, that's fair.

I tend to think of vintage in sax terms as being the last of the great horns from a maker. Perhaps Conn 6M, 10M before 1969, Bueschers to 1963, Kings until about 1970, all Martins, etc. So a MarkVI would be vintage but not a VII. All of this may just be hype too. Somehow a Maxtone sold as vintage would be suspect! For Antique, I would say anything really old not worth playing.
I prefer using none of the terms, just say a used horn.

Yup. Vintage has an inference of value, valuable, sought-after. Old has no inference of value.
Thus, unlike our Yammy above.....a '91...Heimer...may well never be able to carry a 'vintage' moniker without being laughable....

Vintage is old and useful. Old isn't useful.

Succinctly stated. (By that definition...I buy a lotta old horns...and when they leave my shop, they are vintage horns (!) ).

Put 'em all together, and that gives you a pretty good idea of how the term is most typically utilized/understood...at least in terms of musical instruments.

 

[Soul Patch Paul]

Tflanster is right. Vintage is a word taken from the wine trade referring to the yield of grapes or wine from a vineyard during a particular year or season. Every other use has grown from literary license, marketing, and ostentation. Even if a 1957 Selmer MKVI is "vintage" for the purposes of marketing, it is still accurately described as old. In wine, not every vintage is good or even fit to drink, it just tells you how old the wine is and where it came from. These days an old pair of walking shorts at a consignment shop are called "vintage" clothing. The term has lost any real meaning, another sacrifice to hype and nonsense.

 

[SaxTMan]

A 1969 Selmer Mark VI is vintage. A 1969 Selmer Bundy is old.

i kinda agree with the definition... vintage has to have value, and it is not related to the price..

 

[JayeLID]

Yes, but you failed to take into account relative quality of the instrument. A 60's Bundy isn't a bad horn, compared to...say, the later Bundy 2, or the 2011 version of Bundy.

PLUS, you fail to take into account its provenance: the '69 Bundy was made at the former Buescher facility.

Ergo....'69 Vintage Bundy is completely acceptable. Wouldn't bat an eye at that title....

 

[cvsimson]

Blow in it and see if it sounds old or if you like it.
Therefore, results will vary depending on who is blowing on it and on what you expect to get from a vintage horn.
For some people any sax from the last century will be just old.

 

[Jorns Bergenson]

From wikipedia.org:
vintage
1.(attributive) of or relating to a vintage, or to wine identified by a specific vintage
2.(attributive) having an enduring appeal; high-quality, classic (such as video or computer games from the 1980s and early 1990s, or old magazines, etc.)
3.(attributive) of a motor car built between the years 1919 and (usually) 1930 (or sometimes 1919 to 1925 in the USA).