[Carl H2O]

Hi,

I was trying out a lot of vintage tenors this weekend. The main purpose was a Keilwerth New King that was for sale. However, it turned out that the nice owner of this had an army of vintage horns - a lot of those were very leaky and hard to play but I got some kind of idea soundwise. Here goes (for what it's worth):

Conn Pan Am - too leaky really, but the sound was a bit shrill
Keilwerth New King - sound was OK but not really for me
Beaugnier Special Perfect - as the name implies, perfect, very, very nice in both sound and ergonomics
Pierret - quite leaky but a mellow sound reminding of the Beaugnier
Kohlert - quite nice, big sound but hard ergonomics
Mark VI (60 xxx) - also too leaky but the sound was there, to my ear more mellow than the others
Martin Commitee - very nice a big sound - the second best to my ear
SML tenor - unique, soft mellow sound with a core, placed as number three
.......and there was one vintage tenor that was way above the rest both soundwise and ergonomically and it has probably set me on a lifelong quest for these tenors- unfortunately this one was not for sale.


A Florida Link 7* and RJS 3s was on most of the time.

 

[JL]

.......and there was one vintage tenor that was way above the rest both soundwise and ergonomically and it has probably set me on a lifelong quest for these tenors- unfortunately this one was not for sale..

Probably way above the others because that one didn't have leaks! Can't you tell us what it was?

p.s. You really can't pass any kind of judgment on a horn full of leaks.

 

[Carl H2O]

p.s. You really can't pass any kind of judgment on a horn full of leaks.

No, you're right about that. Thus said, I think that one gets a basic, albeit rough sound idea from those notes/registers that you can play. Not all horns were leaking badly, though.
The by far best horn was a Buescher THC 400.

 

[dubrosa22]

.......and there was one vintage tenor that was way above the rest both soundwise and ergonomically and it has probably set me on a lifelong quest for these tenors- unfortunately this one was not for sale.

What was it???

 

[phillecelte]

Bonjour à tous,
je suis désolé mais mon anglais n'est vraiment pas assez bon alors je vous écrit en français. Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec JL, si vos instruments ne bouchent pas correctement, voir parfaitement, il est trés difficile d'avoir un jugement objectif sur les qualités sonores d'un sax.
Le bouchage et le réglage représente 99% de la qualité d'un sax.

 

[Carl H2O]

D'accord

 

[Jeff Foster]

No, you're right about that. Thus said, I think that one gets a basic, albeit rough sound idea from those notes/registers that you can play. Not all horns were leaking badly, though.
The by far best horn was a Buescher THC 400.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[JL]

The by far best horn was a Buescher THC 400.

Yeah, no surprise there.

 

[1saxman]

Even the Selmer Buescher 400 tenor was a monster - I traded in a perfectly good and practically new 1963 MK VI on one in 1964. I was young and stupid, and I let some airsole convince me it was out of tune. I'm quite sure that it was me playing it out of tune if that was even true, but nevertheless I played the Buescher until I got my next new VI in 1966. Man, that 400 honked. I played a Berg steel 130/0 on it which in my ignorance about certain mouthpieces being special I stupidly sold for peanuts when I changed to a Brilhart Level Air 9* sometime in '66 - but I did play that Brilhart for the next 23 years!
Anyway, most anybody would be smarter than to post this goofy picture from '64, but there am I with the 400/Berg setup. Looking at this old picture for the first time in years, it hit me that every one of those other guys are deceased. Me, not so much Oh, and I didn't bump them off, either, even though it was the bari man who made me get rid of that great MK VI, I guess about #100,000? I never did notice the serial numbers in those days.

 

[adamk]

Try a Buescher 156 from the 50's. You might be suprised

 

[HUTMO]

That is a sweet picture.

 

[HornForHire]

Yes, great picture!

 

[pc1234]

Not to take too much away from the Buescher TH&C (they do have a great reputation), but I'm guessing that it may not have been for sale because it may have been the seller's personal horn, which means it was probably properly set-up (unlike most of the others you tried). That will go a long way toward making it the best sounding and best-responding horn.

 

[Steve Stockham]

That is the truth! You're just not going to get the best out of a sax unless it's been set up properly!
By the way, nice picture! (I'd check to see if your Bari player didn't buy that sax after you let it go...) :twisted:

 

[1saxman]

Kriegsmann was tops for performers' pictures at the time. Just to have a Kriegsmann band picture was impressive. Now that I know a little more about things, I am really impressed with what a great portrait camera can do in the hands of an artist. Unfortunately, the band broke up in a few months and the Buescher 400 and I were on to different circumstances - but better! I recently discovered that a couple of songs I was on had been released in Europe by a company dedicated to obscure bands/artists of the '50s/'60s. I got the CD and it was amazing to hear those numbers 45 years after the recording session, which took place in a radio station studio after a live show. The Buescher sounded great - it also was obvious that I haven't changed my style much in all these years. I plan to put both songs on You Tube soon so I'll link it. Heck, if I am brave enough to post my goofy teenage picture, I can post the sounds.

 

[KeithL]

I'll check back in when the discussion turns to how much "increased resonance" and "focused vintage American sound" you get from hanging a rabbit's foot off the top of your bari sax and how you can't have just any old rabbit's foot and the chain needs to be silver plated ....

Neat picture - your bari player was way ahead of his time with that hipster beard. He'd fit right in to modern newly-gentrified Brooklyn. Looking forward to hearing the tunes when you get a chance to post them.

 

[rzzzzz]

with those Beatles collarless knockoffs, you guys could be mistaken for Sounds Incorporated. (longer hair and a liverpool accent would have been strong socialization attributes back in the day.)

 

[Carl H2O]

Not to take too much away from the Buescher TH&C (they do have a great reputation), but I'm guessing that it may not have been for sale because it may have been the seller's personal horn, which means it was probably properly set-up (unlike most of the others you tried). That will go a long way toward making it the best sounding and best-responding horn.

No, it was not like that - he wasn't even playing tenor merely collecting them. I'd say that the setup of the TH & C was in same ballpark as several other horns and to me it was just superior. The best setup was on a Mark VII but that's hardly vintage, is it? Anyways it was a fun day and there's more to discover - I didn't have the time to try out all his vintage Conns.........

Carl

 

[JL]

Not to take too much away from the Buescher TH&C (they do have a great reputation), but I'm guessing that it may not have been for sale because it may have been the seller's personal horn, which means it was probably properly set-up (unlike most of the others you tried). That will go a long way toward making it the best sounding and best-responding horn.

Yes, this was my point also. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the OP preferred the TH&C over those other horns, no way you can do a fair comparison if the horns aren't all in good playing condition. I do think it's possible to get an idea of the potential on a horn that is leaking, but it won't play or sound to its fullest potential.

And I agree with adamk, if you like the TH&C, but can't find one in your price range, a '50 Aristo 156 would be a great choice.

Hey 1saxman, that is a great photo!

 

[JL]

I'd say that the setup of the TH & C was in same ballpark as several other horns and to me it was just superior.

Hey Carl, you posted this while I was writing my last post. I think a TH&C (and most Aristos also) are right up there with the best tenors ever made, and they have something special in the sound. So, condition issues aside, it's no surprise you preferred the TH&C.