[Graysax]

Do YOUR rollers all work perfectly the way they should?

Working on an early 6M the other day and to my surprise the rollers that looked like a yellowed pearl were actually plastic. How do I know? In trying to remove them all because they were FROZEN SOLID (which I will talk more about later) When I gently heated up the key to get the penetrating oil to do it's job, The roller became slightly soft. Only one was destroyed in the process of removing them, so I dissected it, and sure enough, when sliced with a razor, it was certainly plastic (or plastic like).

Was pretty impressed with Conn for using plastic so early, esp with getting it to look like pearl as well.

As I was working on this project, it hit me that I am ALWAYS on edge with working on the key rollers on a vintage saxophone. I don't want to destroy them, but I want them to work as well. Usually rollers have some sort of issue resulting from a rusted rod, stripped thread, or just general damage.

The "Rusted Rod" syndrome with rollers is one I see most. I have even seen the rod so rusted that the rust expanded the diameter of the rod and split the pearl in two.

Regardless, once again, we are now at the point where a replacement is needed. I have had some "Parts Horns" that have provided replacements. Also, Music Medic sells real pearl rollers at a hefty price tag. ($9 each but in no way do I fault Curt as I am sure his cost is pretty high as well). To do an entire sax is upwards of $50. ...... YIKES!!!

So lets make some on the lathe!!! Black Delrin??? Brass? Silver??? All of which will function extremely well but don't not match the OEM pearl ones. Replace them all??? It still would be noticeable that they aren't be original (at least to me).

TODAY after years wishing and hoping, I GOT IT!! It's not Pearl, but it LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE PEARL!! I have located a type of acrylic stock that is PERFECT. My cost is reasonable which makes me think I could market them.

On the left is the yellowed pearl from a 6M and on the right is a piece of roller stock I made. I will try to take some better pictures and post more later.

Now comes another question. Should I market them and make sets for vintage saxophones? I think I can get the Amber color for vintage bueschers as well. I think I could do it for $25 for an ENTIRE SET of rollers for a saxophone.

Is this a niche that needs to be filled?

Thoughts?

 

[Dr G]

FWIW, some in the guitar community age similar plastic replacement parts in various concoctions of coffee, tea, or tobacco.

Have you tried (assuming you care to) seeing whether your parts will take color?

 

[VintageSaxGuy]

Yes, the later 'pearl' rollers Conn used were not pearl at all...which also makes it a bear to replace them with anything but rollers from a parts horn if you only need to replace one or two (and want them to match the other rollers).

But to answer your question, yes, IMO there's a need.

It's inevitable for me that one sax in every so many will either have (at least one) damaged, or mismatched roller.

But in my case, it's somewhat uncommon to need an entire set. The most likely reason to replace an entire set would be if the sax had incorrect rollers on it (ex black rollers on almost any vintage of Conn).

Also, Music Medic actually DOESN'T stock all the Conn sizes any longer (I found this out when ordering recently). They only carry one of the three sizes. I asked if/when the other sizes would be available and received a (polite) response that more or less said they don't know if or when the other sizes will be available, and to check back periodically.

 

[Alley Cat]

I think it's a always good idea to start any business as you never know what other, as yet unseen, opportunities it may lead to. I'm currently trying to come up with a means of holding the straight MoP roller on the left of the picture while I shape it like the one on the right. This would be very easy to do using acrylic. If it doesn't work out I maybe one of your first customers !

I'm sure Dr.G is right. Colours and effects could be very popular. Bright red rollers could do a lot to open up a stuffy horn.

 

[Dr G]

I'm currently trying to come up with a means of holding the straight MoP roller on the left of the picture while I shape it like the one on the right.

Leave the part long enough - some for the collet + enough for the roller - and shape to desired contour, then use your parting tool!

 

[Alley Cat]

Leave the part long enough - some for the collet + enough for the roller - and shape to desired contour, then use your parting tool!

Thank you for your suggestion Dr G. OK, I mount it on a shaft but how to stop it from turning on the shaft while it's being worked on ? As you know, MoP is brittle stuff, easily cracked. I'm thinking about super glueing just the ends to the shaft and then dissolving the glue when the shaping is completed.

Graysax, how much for a four acrylic shaped rollers from a supplied sample ?

 

[abadcliche]

I'd be interested in OEM style replacements for hard-to-find rollers, for sure. Just please make them slightly oversize lengthwise! We can always use our hinge tube shorteners to bring them down to size, and this way we can make a perfect fit on every horn.

 

[BOPITY FUNK]

Yep! good idea $25-$30USD sounds very reasonable indeed.

 

[Graysax]

I think if I do this, it will be marketed 2 different ways.

#1 - as "Roller Stock" in a set length to be cut to size by the person to "fit". I would probably package a few together in a min order type of idea.

#2 - as a "roller set"

Here is a better pic of the 1st "roller stock" I made.

 

[clarnibass]

What a coincidence, I just had the exact same thing. Stuck roller on a Conn "Transitional" (tenor). Heat to remove and it seems like it's plastic. It was mostly ruined anyway and the rod screw needs to be replaced. I'm interested in your rollers. Only one. I'm actually much more interested in the source of the plastic, so I can make the rollers myself. Is there a reason you can't post that? If you just don't want to give the source, so we have to buy from you (unless we find a source ourselves), I would still prefer to buy just some rod stock from you. I haven't yet found a source for plastic that looks very close to these rollers.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

If you Google on something like "acrylic rod pearl white" you will find sources, but white seems to be missing. Perhaps you can find a source by asking those suppliers.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

...The "Rusted Rod" syndrome with rollers is one I see most. I have even seen the rod so rusted that the rust expanded the diameter of the rod and split the pearl in two.

LIkewise. I see pearl as quite unsuitable. It is microscopically porous and must still contain some salt. So where it contacts steel it will greatly encourage rust.

The right plastic is also probably more durable.

So why bother immitating something that is inappropriate. Like painting inside a teacup with animal fur!

(Just stirring! )

 

[Dog Pants]

There are various D.I.Y jewelry stores here that sell beads in all shapes, sizes, colours and materials to cater to the crafty people. Because the beads are more often than not used for necklaces, I've seen several that appear exactly like the roller you pictured. I've also managed to hit them up on occasion for flat discs that can be re-sized and concaved to make replacement key pearls. That's not to say that making your own isn't a better option, but for those looking for a heap and easy replacement, these stores are worth a look.

 

[Graysax]

There are various D.I.Y jewelry stores here that sell beads in all shapes, sizes, colours and materials to cater to the crafty people. Because the beads are more often than not used for necklaces, I've seen several that appear exactly like the roller you pictured. I've also managed to hit them up on occasion for flat discs that can be re-sized and concaved to make replacement key pearls. That's not to say that making your own isn't a better option, but for those looking for a heap and easy replacement, these stores are worth a look.

I spent Hours upon HOURS looking at bead websites only to find the closest thing to be a 4mm diameter tube bead. The conn rollers are in the 5.5mm range (in terms of nice round numbers)

I wish it could of been as easy as finding the right bead. My wife is into making bead jewelry as well, so next "bead show" I am sending her on a mission.

 

[abadcliche]

I'm interested in the long roller stock, sign me up.

When I worked in Manhattan, we were a couple blocks from the diamond/jewelry district. This was pretty awesome because you could walk two blocks and buy high-end jeweler's tools and raw materials. Need a replacement collet chuck for your Foredom tool, a dap set, nickel silver rod stock, and a sheet of abalone? Back in 20 minutes! But even among the dozen or so high-end and wholesale bead stores, I never found a good roller replacement. Lots of other cool stuff though.

The way I figure it, you've spent the time to find the stuff, and that time is time saved on my end, and time is money, so I'll gladly pay for the convenience of it. Also, there are worse things to do than put a few dollars in the pocket of a colleague.

 

[wilsaxo]

Nice stuff! I would think that the stock would be more helpful for professional repairers since we can easily produce a satisfying fit to each key; perhaps sold by the inch or in a 2 or 3 inch length. I think the by the set option would be welcomed by the players who dabble in maintenance of their horns or are just trying their hand at waking up an ebay or attic find.

Yeah, I think a lot of us have searched the jeweler's supply world for roller material with very little success, which explains why many of us screamed "hallelujah" when we saw the MusicMedic.com offering. It will be sad for us if they can't re-stock.

I actually fabricated some from tagua nut (vegetable ivory) some years back. It seemed like a good idea: ivory rollers on my gold plated Buescher True Tone alto. They were easy to fit perfectly, felt great just like ivory, looked great, but after a few months they locked up on the steel. I reamed them out to free them, but after a while they locked up again. Perhaps they were swelling by absorbing the oil on the rod. Who knows?
Conclusion: tagua nut is great for risers & pearls but totally wrong for rollers.

Have you tried working with any of the corian or similar materials that pen turners use? I haven't researched that world for a while even though I once made some rollers from white corian.

Cheers,
David

 

[Henry D]

I'd be very, very, interested in the product in generic "a couple of inches" lengths. I could easily cut it down as required into segments and fininsh from there.

I too went on the bootless hegira for suitable beads.

The MM rollers were very useful in some cases but- and this should be no surprise to anyone- they didn't (couldn't) stock all the required sizes to accomodate the vintage horn needs.

 

[StuartSax]

So, what was the final word on this thread? Is there a source available?

My 10m Bb spatula has one gone, one broken and 3 frozen. I measure the rollers at 5 x 10 mm and have found a few beads that are said to be that size but nothing looks original. Blue glass or black onyx look possible.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

Seeing beads are being discussed, how about a row of spherical beads along the rod. Novel?

 

[StuartSax]

That crossed my mind, Gordon, but colorful as they may be, they'd probably vibrate too much.

See what you think - 5 x 10mm.