[saxobari]

Allo old Conn s expert out there!
I could get this old Conn that yes needs a lot of attention.
The finish is pealing off,so i would maybe ask my tech while he makes the overhaul to strip that gold finish down,,that indeed not holding anymore.
I was told that it is about 104 years old.
So,what Conn is it?
Will it have a great tone once overhauled?
My friend is almost giving it to me,,so should i do it?
I will also ask my tech tomorrow if it a good idea to make this move..
Any of you onws the same model?
How does it play?
I really love the sound of old Conn baritone.
Thanks for taking time to write.
All the best
Saxobari

 

[Kritavi]

Keyed to high Eb, not F. Has the earlier style neck and probably inferior intonation to the later ones. Tone , I'm sure is rich and pleasant once setup right. Make sure its not stamped H for High Pitch.

 

[saxobari]

Keyed to high Eb, not F. Has the earlier style neck and probably inferior intonation to the later ones. Tone , I'm sure is rich and pleasant once setup right. Make sure its not stamped H for High Pitch.

Thanks
Where would that H be?
All the best
Saxobari

 

[tcurry]

I had a very nice 1917 Conn Bari that had an monster sound that I really with I did not sell.

 

[saxobari]

I had a very nice 1917 Conn Bari that had an monster sound that I really with I did not sell.

Thanks
Can we see pictures of it please?
All the best
Saxobari

 

[Sharkey]

The H for high pitch would be by the serial number , some where bellow right hand thumb hook I believe. L for low pitch . some old horns are non descript ,I have a king alto that is old and non descript, hope this helps .

 

[plbgbiz]

Buy now, ask questions later 😂

 

[tcurry]

 

[Grumps]

I've had one for over forty years. It was in poor shape and I really didn't get it back to true playing shape until about twenty years ago. They will play sharp with just about any modern styled mouthpiece unless you play with a really, really loose lip. Back when I got mine back in shape, a member here sent me an old Woodwind Co. mouthpiece, a large chambered "pickle-barrel", that worked well with it. Wanting something more open, I moved to a RPC rollover with an extended shank (5 1/2" total length). Yes, the horn will have that Conn bari bark & bite. Given its limited range/keywork, it'll also be the lightest bari you ever held, which makes for a great bar horn. Heck, I just use a simple Ray Hyman strap for mine.

Now even if you do find a proper mouthpiece, you may still find it a bit sharp in the midrange, from D2 up to F#2. Easily lipped down for an experienced player, but something to be on guard for until you get accustomed to the horn. Of course with the limited keyed range, it's not a good candidate for big band playing or other ensemble work with charts that may go up to high F or low A. The octave design is absolutely terrible, and you have to take care that it doesn't take a knock. Should you wish to sell it some day, even in playing shape I wouldn't expect more than $700 for it.

With all that said, it can be a great horn to play with a jazz combo or rock band. It looks like it may have its original silver plate under that gold paint, so it may turn out looking much better when stripped.

 

[saxobari]

View attachment 146280

This is a beautiful horn!
Very nice..
Thanks
Saxobari

 

[saxobari]

I've had one for over forty years. It was in poor shape and I really didn't get it back to true playing shape until about twenty years ago. They will play sharp with just about any modern styled mouthpiece unless you play with a really, really loose lip. Back when I got mine back in shape, a member here sent me an old Woodwind Co. mouthpiece, a large chambered "pickle-barrel", that worked well with it. Wanting something more open, I moved to a RPC rollover with an extended shank (5 1/2" total length). Yes, the horn will have that Conn bari bark & bite. Given its limited range/keywork, it'll also be the lightest bari you ever held, which makes for a great bar horn. Heck, I just use a simple Ray Hyman strap for mine.

Now even if you do find a proper mouthpiece, you may still find it a bit sharp in the midrange, from D2 up to F#2. Easily lipped down for an experienced player, but something to be on guard for until you get accustomed to the horn. Of course with the limited keyed range, it's not a good candidate for big band playing or other ensemble work with charts that may go up to high F or low A. The octave design is absolutely terrible, and you have to take care that it doesn't take a knock. Should you wish to sell it some day, even in playing shape I wouldn't expect more than $700 for it.

With all that said, it can be a great horn to play with a jazz combo or rock band. It looks like it may have its original silver plate under that gold paint, so it may turn out looking much better when stripped.

Thanks Grump for all the infos.
Yes indeed it seems like it is silver under that pealed gold.
I am thinking of having an overhauled on it,,if i get it…
It would also be for fun,and no big band here,,or sax quartet,,mostly for the rock, music,and funk, side..
Thanks again.
Saxobari

 

[tcurry]

I also used a RPC rollover with an extended shank with mine. It was quite a step up from the pickle barrel.

 

[scrollshank]

To the OP: If you want a vintage Conn and don't have the money for one from the late 20s through the 1941, I think that you are better off looking for a 12M from the 1950s. It will have a front F and most of the the sound that you are looking for.

Edit to add: the bell keys will also be on the right side, and the neck octave key has a separate linkage (like an alto), not the weird mechanism in the pictures.

 

[Grumps]

It would also be for fun,and no big band here,,or sax quartet,,mostly for the rock, music,and funk, side..

Perfect for that.

 

[JayeLID]

Thanks Grump for all the infos.
Yes indeed it seems like it is silver under that pealed gold.
I am thinking of having an overhauled on it,,if i get it…
It would also be for fun,and no big band here,,or sax quartet,,mostly for the rock, music,and funk, side..
Thanks again.
Saxobari

Here's my 2 cents on this...although it sounds like you have already made your decision.

If you have, respectfully....you should maybe rethink your decision.

1) Keyed only up to high E

2) Side octave pip on neck makes adjusting neck position very, very limited. Some will pooh-pooh this but the fact is, playing standing up vs. playing seated (something you are gonna do with a baritone), you really want the neck to be able to rotate more than this will be able to. Yeah, you can 'adjust' to it, phsyically....but...it's a 'what are you getting out of the horn for having to do that ?' situation.
I have refurbed other models with that side pip design....and at the end of the day, their new owners (who could only afford a cheaply priced baritone thus were willing, initially, to accept this handicap, thinking it'd be no big deal) ...relatively quickly moved on from those horns because of this, alone.

3) Strip gold plating ? Try to leave the silver beneath ? Possible, yes - but it takes great care and is beyond the ability of most techs. The idea of silver beneath gold is the gold adheres better to the silver than to brass or a copper-flash plate (the latter often done beneath silver to better adhere it to the brass).
This leads to: this is gonna be an expensive, time-consuming overhaul. I would say, even with a tech who you have a great relationship with.....$1000usd minimum.

Is it really worth that investment ?

It's an anachronistic saxophone, honestly...better suited for a DIY'er who wants to tackle their first Baritone project, can acquire this for $100....and doesn't care if the ultimate result is messed up because it has little market value and again, as a player....with the above attributes plus wonky intonation and a difficult mouthpiece match up....is just not a desirable axe to use on a regular basis.
(On flip side, it will have a 'big tone' and IF the repair person CAN strip the gold plate and manage to keep the silver intact, and that silver is in decent shape, it will be very pretty once cleaned and polished).

FWIW - one can get a refurbed Mexiconn 12M for $1300-1500, or a King Zeph or even a Bundy...you'd have a fully keyed horn, better intonation, a reliable workhorse which sounds just as good, with a neck which can be locked in place wherever you want it to be...much more practical player baritone to have than one of these.

Not to be a wet blanket, but....if you had told me you got it free and the tech could do all of what needs to be done for $600usd...I would reply differently.

 

[saxobari]

Here's my 2 cents on this...although it sounds like you have already made your decision.

If you have, respectfully....you should maybe rethink your decision.

1) Keyed only up to high E

2) Side octave pip on neck makes adjusting neck position very, very limited. Some will pooh-pooh this but the fact is, playing standing up vs. playing seated (something you are gonna do with a baritone), you really want the neck to be able to rotate more than this will be able to. Yeah, you can 'adjust' to it, phsyically....but...it's a 'what are you getting out of the horn for having to do that ?' situation.
I have refurbed other models with that side pip design....and at the end of the day, their new owners (who could only afford a cheaply priced baritone thus were willing, initially, to accept this handicap, thinking it'd be no big deal) ...relatively quickly moved on from those horns because of this, alone.

3) Strip gold plating ? Try to leave the silver beneath ? Possible, yes - but it takes great care and is beyond the ability of most techs. The idea of silver beneath gold is the gold adheres better to the silver than to brass or a copper-flash plate (the latter often done beneath silver to better adhere it to the brass).
This leads to: this is gonna be an expensive, time-consuming overhaul. I would say, even with a tech who you have a great relationship with.....$1000usd minimum.

Is it really worth that investment ?

It's an anachronistic saxophone, honestly...better suited for a DIY'er who wants to tackle their first Baritone project, can acquire this for $100....and doesn't care if the ultimate result is messed up because it has little market value and again, as a player....with the above attributes plus wonky intonation and a difficult mouthpiece match up....is just not a desirable axe to use on a regular basis.
(On flip side, it will have a 'big tone' and IF the repair person CAN strip the gold plate and manage to keep the silver intact, and that silver is in decent shape, it will be very pretty once cleaned and polished).

FWIW - one can get a refurbed Mexiconn 12M for $1300-1500, or a King Zeph or even a Bundy...you'd have a fully keyed horn, better intonation, a reliable workhorse which sounds just as good, with a neck which can be locked in place wherever you want it to be...much more practical player baritone to have than one of these.

Not to be a wet blanket, but....if you had told me you got it free and the tech could do all of what needs to be done for $600usd...I would reply differently.

Thank you for this great comments and advice.
I have second thoughts for sure…
Maybe,i will just look for something with less wirk,and mostly better overnhauled bari.
Again.i really apreaciated your comment of this.
All the best
Saxobari

 

[saxophender]

3) Strip gold plating ? Try to leave the silver beneath ? Possible, yes - but it takes great care and is beyond the ability of most techs. The idea of silver beneath gold is the gold adheres better to the silver than to brass or a copper-flash plate (the latter often done beneath silver to better adhere it to the brass).

I think that's gold paint, not gold plate. Gold plated ones usually had much fancier engraving on the bell. This one has just the Conn logo usually found on bare brass or nickel plated horns.

 

[lostcircuits]

I think that's gold paint, not gold plate. Gold plated ones usually had much fancier engraving on the bell. This one has just the Conn logo usually found on bare brass or nickel plated horns.

Yes, It looks like it was originally silver plated and at some point somebody got tired of the tarnish and decided to have it lacquered as part of an overhaul.

Stripping it could make this horn quite beautiful, the dents in the crook won't affect the playability but they can also be removed as part of the overhaul

Leaves the keying to Eb as the only negative thing but these horns are super easy to overblow and get into the 3rd harmonics if you need the extra top end, it's just a matter of getting used to this kind of playing.

 

[AddictedToSax]

Here's my 2 cents on this...although it sounds like you have already made your decision.

If you have, respectfully....you should maybe rethink your decision.

1) Keyed only up to high E

2) Side octave pip on neck makes adjusting neck position very, very limited. Some will pooh-pooh this but the fact is, playing standing up vs. playing seated (something you are gonna do with a baritone), you really want the neck to be able to rotate more than this will be able to. Yeah, you can 'adjust' to it, phsyically....but...it's a 'what are you getting out of the horn for having to do that ?' situation.
I have refurbed other models with that side pip design....and at the end of the day, their new owners (who could only afford a cheaply priced baritone thus were willing, initially, to accept this handicap, thinking it'd be no big deal) ...relatively quickly moved on from those horns because of this, alone.

3) Strip gold plating ? Try to leave the silver beneath ? Possible, yes - but it takes great care and is beyond the ability of most techs. The idea of silver beneath gold is the gold adheres better to the silver than to brass or a copper-flash plate (the latter often done beneath silver to better adhere it to the brass).
This leads to: this is gonna be an expensive, time-consuming overhaul. I would say, even with a tech who you have a great relationship with.....$1000usd minimum.

Is it really worth that investment ?

It's an anachronistic saxophone, honestly...better suited for a DIY'er who wants to tackle their first Baritone project, can acquire this for $100....and doesn't care if the ultimate result is messed up because it has little market value and again, as a player....with the above attributes plus wonky intonation and a difficult mouthpiece match up....is just not a desirable axe to use on a regular basis.
(On flip side, it will have a 'big tone' and IF the repair person CAN strip the gold plate and manage to keep the silver intact, and that silver is in decent shape, it will be very pretty once cleaned and polished).

FWIW - one can get a refurbed Mexiconn 12M for $1300-1500, or a King Zeph or even a Bundy...you'd have a fully keyed horn, better intonation, a reliable workhorse which sounds just as good, with a neck which can be locked in place wherever you want it to be...much more practical player baritone to have than one of these.

Not to be a wet blanket, but....if you had told me you got it free and the tech could do all of what needs to be done for $600usd...I would reply differently.

The old Martin I sent to George (@JayeLID) has that limited neck position problem. I played it for a while and gave up. Two local techs here in CA quoted me $3000 to make it play right. Thankfully George did it for a fraction of that. Bottom line is, I could have gotten a brand new Chinese made horn for about $3k and 1. had a brand new horn and 2. saved the hassle and cost of shipping it back and forth.
Shipping a Bari is expensive and being such a heavy horn, fraught with the hazard of getting knocked out of adjustment on the way back to you.

 

[Grumps]

1) Keyed only up to high E

Eb, not E

2) Side octave pip on neck makes adjusting neck position very, very limited.

Even if the catch isn't still there, there is only one neck position; which is definitely a valid concern, though it never concerned me.