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Wow! Does seem entirely too good to be true, but who knows. I was just gazing at some photos of that horn on a European website. In its own way, it really is a beautiful horn, much nicer looking, IMHO, than any of the black ones. I'm assuming it's a killer player--do these modern Keilwerths retain the straight line tone holes?

Rory
 

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I think you should call that retailer and ask him. It could be a floor model that they are trying to get rid of. Thats a good price well worth looking into.
 

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rleitch said:
Wow! Does seem entirely too good to be true, but who knows. I was just gazing at some photos of that horn on a European website. In its own way, it really is a beautiful horn, much nicer looking, IMHO, than any of the black ones. I'm assuming it's a killer player--do these modern Keilwerths retain the straight line tone holes?

Rory
Yes they are very beautiful (I own one). And no, all nickel silver JK's are made with rolled tone hole rings.
 

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Don't people report that they are brighter sounding and need to be tamed with a larger chamber piece?

sycc I wouldn't get too excited. It's just an SX90 with rolled tone holes. You already have an SX90. Though the Nickel horn might look sharp it won't sound any better than your current set up.

Also Kessler has had these as low as $3200 and even cheaper if I remember correctly.
 

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I played last night with a guy who just got one of these. Personally I don't like the way it looks, but that's a matter of taste. He plays it with a Berg SS. Before, he was playing a Woodwinds horn. He was delighted with the instrument, and I can see why, though I must say: he sounded exactly the same on this horn as he did on the other one. I could detect no difference. Still, he was very happy. He paid $4K for his!
 

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heath said:
Don't people report that they are brighter sounding and need to be tamed with a larger chamber piece?.
You mean it sounds just like my ugly old silver Cleveland? :shock: ;)


Hi Finnerski! Sorry I didn't express myself more clearly. What I meant was are the tone holes set in a line (like a vintage US horn) or are they offset for ergonomic reasons.
 

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rleitch said:
You mean it sounds just like my ugly old silver Cleveland? :shock: ;)


Hi Finnerski! Sorry I didn't express myself more clearly. What I meant was are the tone holes set in a line (like a vintage US horn) or are they offset for ergonomic reasons.
Oh, sorry I read that wrong. Actually, they are not offset like a selmer. I hear a lot of complaints from people with smaller hands. I'm a pretty big guy (6'4" 225 lbs) and they fit my hands really well. I used to play a 5 digit mark 6for 8 years. I like the JK feel and sound better.

Also in terms a brightness, these horns really aren't. I play it with a Guardala King and it actually helped brighten my horn the way I like it. These NS horns are probably the brightest JK's, but still not as bright as a Yamaha. It's just a matter of personal preference and it looks like you are getting responses from some JK haters.

Oh Splinter, you think they are ugly? Well I guess I'll have to get you on the negativity thread!:D As far as your buddy sounding the same as his Woodwind horn, he must not have command of his sound. Because the JK will do much more soundwise than any Taiwanese WWBW horn. Peace.

I feel the worms slithering out of the can!
 

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Yes I would think the JK would sound different than practically any other modern small bore instrument.

And I personally think the nickel silver horns are sharp looking, but your better off buying used.
 

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Finnerski said:
Oh Splinter, you think they are ugly? Well I guess I'll have to get you on the negativity thread!:D As far as your buddy sounding the same as his Woodwind horn, he must not have command of his sound. Because the JK will do much more soundwise than any Taiwanese WWBW horn. Peace.

I feel the worms slithering out of the can!
Didn't say they were ugly, just that I don't prefer this finish myself, personally.:D Beyond that, you're right: he's not, IMO, though he seems to like the way he sounds. My point here was not really about the horn, which is certainly a superb one. It's just a little evidence for the hypothesis that speaking in general, within certain limits, the player sounds like the player.
 

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heath said:
And I personally think the nickel silver horns are sharp looking, but your better off buying used.
You are without a doubt better off buying one used, if you can find one. That right there says a lot about this horn. Check out E-bay and see how many used JK's there are. Then check out how many used Selmers, Yamaha's and Yani's there are for sale. Nobody is selling their JK's.

BTW I tried calling Jim Laabs on that price. Just got a recording.
 

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Reedsplinter said:
It's just a little evidence for the hypothesis that speaking in general, within certain limits, the player sounds like the player.
Couldn't have said that better myself! So true.
 

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Finnerski said:
You are without a doubt better off buying one used, if you can find one. That right there says a lot about this horn. Check out E-bay and see how many used JK's there are. Then check out how many used Selmers, Yamaha's and Yani's there are for sale. Nobody is selling their JK's.

BTW I tried calling Jim Laabs on that price. Just got a recording.
In reality, used Yanis are hard to find as well. There are so many Yamahas and Selmers for sale, just because there are so many Yamahas and Selmers sold. Yanagisawa and Keilwerth sell many fewer horns...I would guess that a similar fraction are available used.
 

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shmuelyosef said:
In reality, used Yanis are hard to find as well. There are so many Yamahas and Selmers for sale, just because there are so many Yamahas and Selmers sold. Yanagisawa and Keilwerth sell many fewer horns...I would guess that a similar fraction are available used.
Just did a search on USA e-bay. There are a total of 5 pro JK's currently for sale. 2 Buffet stencils, 2 BN tenors and 1 SX-90 bari.

I did the search on pro Selmers and quit counting at around 35 or so. I know JK didn't make many horns but lets face it, there's 130,000 of these JK's in circulation and only a handful for sale. I can get a Mark 6 or a Super 80 in a blink of an eye. :) Sorry, but I disagree a little. I think the amount of Selmers out there for sale are at a higher rate than the JK's. But you can't ignore the fact that the Selmers have the high price tag, which puts so many of these on the market.
 

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While it's true that there are a lot of Selmer horns for sell it in no way makes a statement about the quality of these horns. I have all selmers now and I'm not selling these horns, I held onto a SX90 for three months gave it all I could and threw my hands up in the air.

Sometimes I wonder if JK didn't revamp their horn line to offer the current ergos and something very similar to Selmer or Yamaha in feel. Sort of a mega size and modest size for the average joe. My guess is if the JK felt as comfy as the other big three then their market share would grow much faster. I can't see a need in ignoring that fact. I'm 6'2" with normal hands and I can't deal with the spread of the lower stack. JK needs to look at guys like me as their customer base because I've got money to blow being single, no kids and no responsibilities. They have a unique design as far as the massive bore, they just need to sweeten it a little more by moving a few pearls around and the low Eb/C keys.
 

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I have to agree with Heath about the JK tenors. I got rid of mine because it wasn't a good fit for my small hands. Never had a problem with any Selmer or Yamaha.
 

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Yes Heath, I'm with you on the quality on the Selmers too. They are great horns. The right hand ergs on the Selmers are the best. For me, it was the LH palm keys on my 6 that kind of made it difficult for me. I favor the RH ergs on the Selmer over the JK, but the left hand ergs on the JK are one of the things that sold me. It was nice to adjust them, and they felt more accessible to me. I worry a little that the screws on the adjustible palm keys seem a little frail but I thought I sounded a lot more in tune up there than I did on my 6. And I felt like I could express myself a little easier with the JK. Not arguing, just giving my perspective. I'm glad you are at peace with your Selmers, I'm sure you sound great on them.:)

Me on the other hand, should quit yappin' and go practice.
 

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Yeah I didn't have any problem with the upper stack or palm keys on the JK, so I don't feel they need to be moved around. And the upper palm keys on the JK shouldn't give you any problem, but if they fail I wouldn't hesitate to contact JK.

The VI isn't perfect as far as ergos of the upper stack and that goes for mine as well, but I think Selmer nailed the perfect placement and almost effortless spatula keys when they designed the Ref tenors. Of course nothing is worse then the spatula keys on the VII tenor, but for some odd reason as funky as that horn is I love mine, plus it's a great gig horn because it's a tank.

The Asians seemed to have done their home work when it comes to ergos of the Yamaha and Yani. Maybe it's because many of these Asian men tend to be smaller stature and probably have smaller hands.
 
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