[Nefertiti]

I just spent an hour playing the Theo Wanne Gaia 3 and 4 back and forth getting ready for a review of the Gaia 4. I'll post my thoughts in the review but was wondering what you guys attribute this observation to:

When I played the Gaia 3 into the open empty basement with a concrete floor and while playing turn to the concrete wall the sound gets considerably more focused sounding to me. With the Gaia 4, when I do the same thing, I noticed very little difference when turning to the wall. It sounds great but I don't get the dramatic focus change when I turn to the wall like I do with most mouthpieces. I have encountered this with a few other mouthpieces and it has always bewildered me. Most mouthpieces get considerable more focused when playing into a wall in my experience. Do any of you have thoughts on why this would vary from mouthpiece to mouthpiece? I'm just curious and would like to understand it. Thanks!

 

[Saxophone Strange]

In my experience, I wouldn’t say more “focused” but, I would say that there is a timbre difference which allows for more reverberation to be observed. In some cases maybe louder… but, that could be because of just a really good reed mouthpiece combination and you finding the ability to observe it.

 

[pontius]

I've noticed the rubber pieces bounce better.

 

[Benjamin Allen]

I theorize the Gaia 4 is triggering the opening of an Einstein Rosen Bridge that is consuming the sound and preventing it from reverberating in what you perceive as a more focused tonality. This prevents you from noticing any "focused" tonal splash back. Just be careful.

Edit: But seriously, I find that mirrors reflect sound much better than stone walls.

 

['Nana Reedpublik]

The G4 is advertised to have a newly-designed "Large Stadium Chamber." Maybe that element of its design is a factor in your perception that it doesn't have as dramatic of a "focus change" when turning to the wall, relative to the G3 & most other pieces...just a thought, but of course it could simply be marketing chatter, & has no bearing on this effect whatsoever.

 

[mmichel]

In my experience, I wouldn’t say more “focused” but, I would say that there is a timbre difference which allows for more reverberation to be observed.

I would agree with this and posit that it's likely caused by more upper partials in the mouthpiece for which you hear the difference. High frequency sound waves scatter more easily and tend to be more affected by reflecting surfaces. That is, if you direct a low frequency pure tone into a wall, you're less likely to notice a difference in volume; when you do that with a complex sound (i.e., a superposition of many pure tones), then the reflection will cause the apparent loudness of the HF ones to increase relative to the LF ones.

 

[lostcircuits]

It is probably the specific acoustics of the concrete basement and how they align with the frequency spectrum of your setup. You may get some resonance or doppler effect but you should be able to check by varying the distance to the wall.

More specifically, every sound wave contains different frequencies and if you vary your distance from the reflective surface, you will get phase doubling or cancellation at different frequencies of the spectrum. The "focus" or lack thereof may be coincidental based on the exact position where you stand. In other words, you may want to try and repeat the experiment using markers on the floor to ensure the exact same location at which you are standing. Different MPCs will also play a bit louder or softer, causing you to get closer or stand away a bit farther from the wall and that will effect the phase cancellation and doubling as well.

In your particular case, being monaural may also contribute to the phenomenon.

 

[pontius]

I got tinnitus from playing a rubber piece into a mirror, so be careful.


Seriously though, I think what is probably happening is, when you play a mouthpiece in open air and not getting any bounce back, you are loosing a bunch of the high frequencies. So for mouthpieces that have more high frequencies, you hear a bigger difference when you bounce it back to you, and if you are playing a mouthpiece that is more spread with less cut, then it does not sound that dramatically different.

 

[whaler]

I've noticed the rubber pieces bounce better.

I kid you not but I went to Bobby Dukoff’s factory in Florida twice and he told me he picked the Silverlite because of how it rang when he dropped it on his concrete floor.

 

[pontius]

I kid you not but I went to Bobby Dukoff’s factory in Florida twice and he told me he picked the Silverlite because of how it rang when he dropped it on his concrete floor.

Yeah, it sounded like cha-ching

 

[ROC]

I kid you not but I went to Bobby Dukoff’s factory in Florida twice and he told me he picked the Silverlite because of how it rang when he dropped it on his concrete floor.

 

[Nefertiti]

I would agree with this and posit that it's likely caused by more upper partials in the mouthpiece for which you hear the difference. High frequency sound waves scatter more easily and tend to be more affected by reflecting surfaces. That is, if you direct a low frequency pure tone into a wall, you're less likely to notice a difference in volume; when you do that with a complex sound (i.e., a superposition of many pure tones), then the reflection will cause the apparent loudness of the HF ones to increase relative to the LF ones.

My observation is that the Gaia 3 has more higher overtones and brightness in the tone and the Gaia 4 seems like it has more mids in the tone making it thicker and more gutsy sounding. This would go hand in hand with what you are describing I think.

 

[Nefertiti]

I got tinnitus from playing a rubber piece into a mirror, so be careful.


Seriously though, I think what is probably happening is, when you play a mouthpiece in open air and not getting any bounce back, you are loosing a bunch of the high frequencies. So for mouthpieces that have more high frequencies, you hear a bigger difference when you bounce it back to you, and if you are playing a mouthpiece that is more spread with less cut, then it does not sound that dramatically different.

I think that nails it. The Gaia 4 has more mids in the tone and the Gaia 3 has more highs that makes sense with what you are saying........

 

[Nefertiti]

Lance Burton on Facebook posted this, which I found totally interesting:

The Mouthpieces: The 3 has a higher/longer baffle than the 4, so it generates stronger high frequencies.
The Horn: Because of the tone hole cut-off frequency, the frequencies below 800Hz reflect at the open tone hole back to the mouthpiece and create the standing wave. This is what powers the reed oscillation. Some of that sound emits from that open tone hole.
The frequencies above ca. 800Hz (tenor) travel the length of the body where those below ca. 1800Hz (tenor) reflect at the open bell, back to the mouthpiece. Some of that sound comes out of the open holes below the 1st open tone hole.
The frequencies above ca. 1800Hz (tenor) escape the horn, by coming out of the bell. These are largely gobbled up by room acoustics, but they are what you hear as focus, when you play against the wall or you are close-miked.
More high frequencies, more sound coming out of the bell.

 

[nvilletele]

I find my focus varies greatly after I bang my head into the wall.

 

[Keith Ridenhour]

My observation is that the Gaia 3 has more higher overtones and brightness in the tone and the Gaia 4 seems like it has more mids in the tone making it thicker and more gutsy sounding. This would go hand in hand with what you are describing I think.

I agree with MM on this one. I always like a piece with a spread behind me rather than a high pitch I have to bounce off of something to be heard if this makes sense. In other words a piece I can hear myself in the mix on stage if its loud and Im not getting any monitor. A big spread tone K

 

[SuperAction80]

Could be as simple as a change in voicing to accommodate your desired tone with whatever monitoring situation you're experiencing. I've noticed that I'll change what my throat is doing based upon what I'm hearing via wall, room, or electronic monitor. The Gaia is a pretty strident piece, which would sound amazing when projecting in a room. It may be too much for your ears when playing a GF against a wall, so you're subconsciously holding back? Either that, or the sound it's generating possibly sounds better at a distance? Are you noticing the same thing if you back off the wall?

 

[hakukani]

I kid you not but I went to Bobby Dukoff’s factory in Florida twice and he told me he picked the Silverlite because of how it rang when he dropped it on his concrete floor.

I love the sound of Dukoff silverite mouthpieces bouncing off a concrete floor.

 

[reedsburn62]

My observation is that the Gaia 3 has more higher overtones and brightness in the tone and the Gaia 4 seems like it has more mids in the tone making it thicker and more gutsy sounding. This would go hand in hand with what you are describing I think.

My experience as well, I prefer the 3 over the 4, however I'm now playing the Durga 5. I just had to go over to the "bright" side since the bulk of my tenor gigs are commercial type things.

 

[Nefertiti]

My experience as well, I prefer the 3 over the 4, however I'm now playing the Durga 5. I just had to go over to the "bright" side since the bulk of my tenor gigs are commercial type things.

Now, playing the Durga 5 or Shiva 3 into a wall full volume would be detrimental to your hearing I think..........