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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, does anybody know more about the Vandoren V16 T77 metal tenor mouthpiece?

I know the tip opening is 2.77mm and the facing is described as long (how long?) but now information about the chamber size (small/medium/large?).

No information on Vandoren website found (funny that there seems to be no archive of information on discontinued products.) They seem to have simplified their product pallette to just a few models.

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The original model is considered to have a small chamber, hence the new models that specify medium & large chambers.
 

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The v16 t77 is my favorite of the older metal v16s. It's the same chamber with straight side walls as the newer small chamber v16s. The t77 has about a .108 tip with a longer facing than the t75. A fantastic mouthpiece with a tone that sits right in between a link and a guardala. The t75 is also good but the t77 is a little less brittle and doesn't spread out like the t95. The t77 is very Reed friendly and I always played it with a java red 2.5.
 

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Thanks for the great information!
Just want to echo the thoughts of sinkdrain and also point out that in Vandoren’s current lineup, the model equivalent to the V16 T77 is the V16 T8 Small chamber.

Vandoren has actually expanded their product offering and the new names and numbers are more rational for those just being introduced to the brand. Though mapping the new models to the old requires a bit of history.

Here is a mapping:
T45 -> NA
T55 -> T6 Small Chamber
T75 -> T7 Small Chamber
T77 -> T8 Small Chamber
T95 -> T9 Small Chamber
 

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The first version of the V16 metal had small chamber, rollover baffle, straight side wall and medium long facing.
That gave them tendencies that lots of people didnt care about like brittleness, not projecting well, not colourful but rather plain.
Some experimented by opening the throat with favourable results. Perhaps that is why the company made the new version with larger chambers.
From all the old V16s i think the T95 was the warmest biggest sounding and less brittle, but also the least focused. The T77 was in the middle to the 95 and 75 that was focused and bright.Strangely enough all sounded quite different from each other probably cause Vandoren changes the facing lengths with different tip openings. The T75 had short facing, TheT55, T77 and 95 long.
 

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Each tip opening of the older v16's had a unique facing curve, some long...some short. So, the t75, t77, and t95 played very different from each other. I wonder how the length of the facing is approached with the new generation of metal v16s.
 

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How would one do that? I know people are refacing but never heard about changing the internal geometry,,,
Mouthpiece modification goes back long way.
Coltrane ruined some mouthpieces with a screwdriver as far as i know.
It can be done with different methods depending how handy you are and what tools you have.
Best would be to take the mouthpiece to your sax repairman or mouthpiece refacer and go very slowly always testing the results. Once you take material out can not go back.
Well some add different materials in order to build higher baffle or make the chamber smaller for more focused sound with mixed results but of course it is best to remove less than try to add it back again.
Interestingly when Vandoren designs a new mouthpiece they do exactly the same. At the prototype stage they use a mouthpiece that has big chamber and no baffle and they add material, i think putty, till they are happy with the sound.
By opening the throat of the V16 you make the chamber bigger but there is no need for that anymore, Vandoren did that for us with their new V16 and now they offer both small, medium and large chambers.
Funny thing is that since the old V16 were discontinued the have achieved a bit of a mystique with people saying there were better than the new ones and going for higher prices than the new ones.The older version had thinner rails and slimmer profile but other than that the new medium and large chamber are bigger sounding less brittle and project far better.
 

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Funny thing is that since the old V16 were discontinued the have achieved a bit of a mystique with people saying there were better than the new ones and going for higher prices than the new ones.The older version had thinner rails and slimmer profile but other than that the new medium and large chamber are bigger sounding less brittle and project far better.
The new generation v16 small chambers share the same flat sidewalls and chamber as the older v16s. But, the older v16s had different length facings compared to the new ones. A new t8 small chamber has a different facing length than a t77.
 

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The new generation v16 small chambers share the same flat sidewalls and chamber as the older v16s. But, the older v16s had different length facings compared to the new ones. A new t8 small chamber has a different facing length than a t77.
How do you know that? I have measured both a T77 and T8 and are very close around 27mm. A t95 that is referred to also as long facing by Vandoren as the other two was around 33
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I might try that on a terrible fake chinese Yanagisawa alto mouthpiece that is unusable as it is anyway, so it doesn't matter if it gets even worse... I guess one has to go by very small increments.
 
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