Vandoren V16 HR Tenor

13580 Views 55 Replies 16 Participants Last post by phannah, Dec 3, 2007

phannah

Discussion Starter · Oct 4, 2007

So what it the verdict on the Vandoren V16 HR Tenor mouthpieces? I've read some of the older threads on here, but I was wondering if the are still as good as they some are claiming. It seems like a good mpc. I'm moments away from ordering a T7 and a T9.

also I noticed on Ralph Bowens site (he's sooo burnin') that he is playing on a Vandoren T111 Tenor, but I can't seem to find them anywhere. Anyone know what they are? Thanks, PH

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chops2200

· #2 · Oct 4, 2007

AHHHH.....no vandorens....

Actually dont' listen to me, I dunno what i'm talking about. I bought a Jumbo Java HR Tenor piece once and hated it., I've been trying to get rid of it ever since. I don't know anything about the V16 pieces though.

daigle65

· #3 · Oct 4, 2007

I tried a HR T8 a couple of months ago.
I found it was OK but I wasn't blown away. I had trouble with the subtone and it didn't seem very reed friendly, some squeaking.
T111 Tenor ???? Never heard of that, it's not even on the Vando Web site.

Canadiain

· #4 · Oct 4, 2007

I ordered a V16 T8 from Ed Zentera....Its not arrived yet. Getting impatient to have at it

If Ed cant make it just right, noone can right?

A Jumbo Java it is not! Not really fair to judge Vandoren by the JJ alone!

jrsopsax

· #5 · Oct 4, 2007

I bought one of Ed's V16 T9 HR's a while back. It subtones beautifully, outstanding response top to bottom and works well in small combo settings as well as with electronics. It does have curved side walls but maintains a bit of brightness. I have been playing it exclusively for the past month and have no regrets. I still keep my Lamberson L6, Ponzol ML (MOJO) and my DG King in my case just in case I get the urge try one of my other mouthpieces.

daigle65

· #6 · Oct 4, 2007

jrsopsax said:
I bought one of Ed's V16 T9 HR's a while back. It subtones beautifully, outstanding response top to bottom and works well in small combo settings

What does he do to it ?

Canadiain

· #7 · Oct 4, 2007

daigle65 said:
What does he do to it ?

to quote the sales post...

"Refaced from table to tip to ensure everything is flat where it's supposed to be and curved where it's not .

Side rails and tip rail also thinned to match a reed profile better.

Baffles tweaked, chambers unmodified."

daigle65

· #8 · Oct 4, 2007

Canadiain said:
to quote the sales post...

"Refaced from table to tip to ensure everything is flat where it's supposed to be and curved where it's not .
Baffles tweaked, chambers unmodified."

OK thanks.

Canadiain said:
Side rails and tip rail also thinned to match a reed profile

Hmmm...the rails already seem pretty thin, I was guessing that's where the squeeking came from.

EZ

· #9 · Oct 4, 2007

daigle65 said:
Hmmm...the rails already seem pretty thin, I was guessing that's where the squeeking came from.

Thin rails will squeak if the rest of the piece is not set up ideally. Also, with thinner rails, a piece can become more airstream sensitive, but a quality setup generally makes a piece more robust against bad reeds, bad airstream, etc. Nothing is fool-proof, but a good setup can make it more tolerant of the player

.

The T111 would be an older Vandoren - they don't make these anymore. I have a couple red T99's and a black T100 - the T100 can sometimes be spotted on eBay. I have not inspected a T111 firsthand, but based on the similarity between the T99 and T100, I assume that the T111 would be similar - maybe a little more open? This line of pieces are newer than the old Diamond Ebonite pieces which are large chambered and low baffled - more of a traditional vintage design.

The T99 and T100 pieces have slender, narrow beaks which supply a focused airstream and a support a more focused sound. Straight sidewalls squeezing back to a medium/small throat opening. Baffles are straight with a medium height.

I find these pieces feel and play a lot like the Morgan C line.

The HR V16's play brighter than Vandoren's "vintage" marketing lets on, I feel. They are rather punchy. Somewhat similar to a Java on the inside (not a Jumbo). The taller beak gives a more open embouchure which I think lends the piece more tonal depth than a Java and also gives (me at least) better vibrato and control of pitch bending than the slender beaked pieces.

The HR V16 pieces are very good out of the box and certainly worth a try as they are so affordable.

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daigle65

· #10 · Oct 4, 2007

Thanks for the info !
I feel smarter than I did yesterday !
I might contact you someday to work on a V16 A8 alto piece of mine.....there's something not right about it.

jrsopsax

· #11 · Oct 5, 2007

daigle65,

Here is what EZ said in the add I purchased this one from:

Almost like new condition Tenor Vandoren V16 HR - the new design.

.109" tip opening with a longer than stock facing. Reworked from table to tip for optimum performance and "reed cooperativity".

Kini

· #12 · Oct 5, 2007

I have a stock T9 and a Mouthpiece Guys perfected T7 and I like them both very much (both cheap ebay wins). For now I've settled on them ahead the other 10 or so mouthpieces in the drawer as I get back up to speed on tenor (including 2 highly coveted "vintage" BLUE Javas....just a little humor...). FWIW, I think the Vandoren Masters lig works very well on the Vand mouthpieces.

What I find interesting is that there were scads of positive comments when the tenor pieces came out, but at the same time you find many like new pieces for sale. I'm not sure what that indicates, but if you're patient, you can get into one pretty cheaply.

ving

· #13 · Oct 5, 2007

My qualms with these were the beak feel--I didn't care for the higher profile, and the material; I think its a little harder than would be ideal. I have the same material complaint with the alto I have, comparatively to a Morgan I think the rubber compound is a bit lacking in tonal depth....

Martinman

· #14 · Oct 5, 2007

rdf2 said:
What I find interesting is that there were scads of positive comments when the tenor pieces came out, but at the same time you find many like new pieces for sale. I'm not sure what that indicates, but if you're patient, you can get into one pretty cheaply.

It's called "GAS"

phannah

Discussion Starter · #15 · Oct 5, 2007

Yeah, I think I passed GAS for now. I'm still searching, as we all are, for a different peice. I've been using a RPC .105 which feels pretty good right now. But there is always tomorrow! Thanks for the most expert advise/comments. It is appreciated. PH

EZ

· #16 · Oct 5, 2007

One relieving thought about G.A.S. is the worst is behind you.

rleitch

· #17 · Oct 5, 2007

ving said:
My qualms with these were the beak feel--I didn't care for the higher profile, and the material; I think its a little harder than would be ideal. I have the same material complaint with the alto I have, comparatively to a Morgan I think the rubber compound is a bit lacking in tonal depth....

I agree with Ving's point about the beak feel 100%: especially if, like me, you like to add a substantial tooth patch, this piece is a mouthfull! I have other HR pieces that look fatter, but none feels as big as this one in my mouth.

Ed said something interesting about how this configuration alters your throat shape and/or breath support/production--anybody have any thoughts on that?

Also, while my playing has never been accused of having tonal depth, I agree about the rubber too: my Morgan smells much more rubbery when it gets warm!

Rory

ps. I'm using a Masters lig and it does fit like a glove--not OJ's glove.

Swingtone

· #18 · Oct 5, 2007 (Edited)

ving said:
My qualms with these were the beak feel--I didn't care for the higher profile, and the material; I think its a little harder than would be ideal. I have the same material complaint with the alto I have, comparatively to a Morgan I think the rubber compound is a bit lacking in tonal depth....

I don't quite understand this. It sounds to me that you might not be used to vintage hard rubber mouthpieces. I held my T7 V16 up next to a vintage Brilhart Ebolin and an Otto Link Tone Edge, and the beak profile is about the same on all three (i.e., higher than on most metal pieces). Perhaps you are coming from metal pieces and a Morgan, which have very slim beaks more akin to metal pieces and are quite different from most vintage HR pieces in this respect.

I find my T7 piece to be excellent in every respect right out of the box. What I notice is that it plays consistently from top to bottom, whereas one of my boutique pieces--made by a company which has already been mentioned in this thread--seems to thin out to much up high (but has GREAT lows, mind you). That's one of the pleasant surprises of these Vandoren HR's--they don't thin out in the upper register and still play nice and thick, if you will, right up to high F (I only play VINTAGE horns

).

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Swingtone

· #19 · Oct 5, 2007

rleitch said:
I agree with Ving's point about the beak feel 100%: especially if, like me, you like to add a substantial tooth patch, this piece is a mouthfull! I have other HR pieces that look fatter, but none feels as big as this one in my mouth.

Then don't use a substantial tooth patch.

The beak on these is no higher than on a vintage Brilhart or Tone Edge--in fact, it's almost indentical. I think people are just used to metal pieces or a rubber pieces with super slim beaks, such as Morgan's.

It's all where you're coming from...the same thing could be said of the vaunted Selmer LH pinky cluster, which I don't find to be the Holy Grail by any stretch. Again, I think those that swear by it started on Selmer's and Yamaha's back in the 4th grade, which had this kind of LH action. In contrast, I started on a Buescher Aristocrat back in '79 that had the old in-line vintage-style LH cluster. So this is what I'm the most comfortable with, and the Selmer cluster felt weird to me the first time I tried a Mark VI a couple years ago.

ving

· #20 · Oct 6, 2007

Whats not to understand? I didn't like the feel of the beak, if that is what playing on an old Brilhart or Link HR is like I probably wouldn't like the feel of those either; to wit, I have not been a player of either a HR link or Brilhart. But I have played only rubber pieces for the last 5 years or so, save for the last 9 months off and on when I was trying to play a bronze berg. I will qualify this, though, I think I prefer a longer facing than what comes stock on the T8 I had. Whatever I do with my bottom jaw when I am really pushing for volume or some tonal apect of my playing the T8 was pretty uncomfortable. The T9 I had briefly was better, I would like to try a few of those out again sometime and see if I can find a better one. Anyhow, they are good for what they are. I do feel I can get more out of my other Morgan pieces though--the Morgans have the depth and complexity I found a bit lacking in the V16's....

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