[montague saxby]

So, I was lucky enough to pick up a recent V16 T9 metal piece "Large Chamber" for a silly price.
- For those that don't know, the Large chamber is marketed as a 1940's style mouthpiece -
I have always wanted to see how these things play, and although a 9 is outside my comfort zone it is a surprisingly easy blow.
From a sound point of view though its really flat, grey and boring.....really uninspiring, with one caveat the upper notes do sing very nicely indeed.
As I am happy on my current pieces, one of my ideas behind getting this (if it didn't play well as is) was to experiment.

So I have thoughts about sending it to someone and getting it closed down to an 8 (better for me) making sure the table / tip / rails etc are fine and then having some sort of baffle built up to give it a bit of higher frequencies, buzz and tone.
By the way the rails are really thick on this piece.
The tip is fine and follows reed contours nicely, but I suspect the table is not truly flat.

I'm just putting this out there in case anyone has done something similar and / or has any ideas.

 

[pontius]

Never had the chance to try a metal V16. I have re-worked a couple hard rubber ones and I think they play much better after opening the chamber and re-shaping the floor and baffle to more of a classic Link shape. Mine were not large chamber versions though.

If you close the tip, and refine the rails that alone might brighten the piece up without messing with the baffle.

 

[buddy lee]

I think it's a great idea especially if you bought it very cheap. Nothing to lose.

 

[Sigmund451]

That piece is nothing like a 1940’s piece (whatever that is).
Its bright and pretty 2 dimensional through the rest of the range.
it can make a nice link style piece but not if you are after a tonemaster vibe.
The brass may be bronze. Its very hard.
Extensive work will probably cost more than finding a piece close to what you want and having it setup.
Id sell or trade.

 

[Sebastian]

I do this kind of work all the time to Vandoren pieces. The tenor ones for me are like beautifully finished blanks. The ones I tend to stay away from are the small chamber ones since they work quite well on their own albeit a little bland for my taste. Closing it down and recutting the tip and contouring the inside opens up the voice considerably. The tables on Vandorens are concave like many classic brands such as Otto Link and Meyer Bros. I find that Vandoren does this detail better than most production pieces which often have what appear to be haphazard dips in the tables. Flat or concave is a matter of preference provided they are made well.

Recutting the shape of the tip and baffle in order to revoice the mouthpiece is the thing that will result in the most noticeable change. You would end up with a piece that is voiced more contemporary and has that larger chamber that will feel like a vintage style piece. I'm guessing they were going for a modern ToneMaster vibe with this one but out of the box it's not my favorite. Same goes for the M/50's chamber they make.

 

[Sigmund451]

I dont know who does the design work for vd. While they have reasonable execution I have yet to play a version I enjoy tonally. For me they always miss the mark.

 

[theneighbordubh]

It could be easier to sell a mpc that hasn't been modified. Meaning if you don't like it after the mod, it might be harder to sell than in it's current shape. You are almost guaranteed profit if you sell it now, so you can put the profit towards a piece that already has the specs you want.

 

[buddy lee]

I dont know who does the design work for vd. While they have reasonable execution I have yet to play a version I enjoy tonally. For me they always miss the mark.

Agreed. The last one I had was the newer medium chamber in a .100 tip and while it played well, tonally it was just very uninteresting.

 

[Sigmund451]

I find most of them on the harsh side. I think this is where the myth was born that European players like bright mouthpieces. It was basically all they had access to for a long time. I had to adjust my thinking really quick when I got here. On the whole, they cant get enough full bodied and darker pieces.
Works for me

 

[montague saxby]

Thanks for all the replies...
FYI for a number of years I have been very happy on my and Phil-Tone piece and more recently on my Gerber, which therefore allows me the luxury of experimenting as I'm not looking for the Holy Grail.
As stated above its very 2 dimensional and harsh, really harsh with no substance.
But also sub-tone playing has absolutely nothing of interest tonally.
It had been for sale for some time - hence the cheap price (plus it came with an optimum lig' + plates) again this lig" does nothing for me and will be sold.

But I thought it might be nice, using it as a blank, to take it more towards a Link (not a Tonemaster)..
And yes its probably going to be hard to work on being the "Legendary Bell metal Brass".....
(some truth and sarcasm here using their ad' speak to go along with their 1940's / 50's and 60's marketing ploy)

 

[ving]

I had an older version T95 metal when they first came out about 22/23 years ago, and it played great but always felt empty or something. Too diffuse, like I couldn’t get the sound to ring and seemed to lack presence in a larger room. I still have the flyer that came with that although I no longer have the mpc. It lists a print out of the facing curve from that particular mpc in case I ever wanted to have Vandoren replace it in case of loss or damage. Do you think they still would?😀

 

[mrpeebee]

I think this is where the myth was born that European players like bright mouthpieces. It was basically all they had access to for a long time.

I don't think that's very accurate Phil. Here in NL we always had Otto Link mouthpieces available and most great (tenor) players always played them (also in the past). It might be different in France, maybe they are more Selmer oriented for horns and mouthpieces.

 

[Sigmund451]

I stand corrected.

Montague, it will make a nice STM type piece. It wont be a Tonemaster.

 

[montague saxby]

@Sigmund451
From what Sebastian said above, and knowing his great work, and being a fan of your work, you would be the obvious choice for me to have this piece worked on here in Europe.
I will think about it and let you know via email.

 

[montague saxby]

I don't think that's very accurate Phil. Here in NL we always had Otto Link mouthpieces available and most great (tenor) players always played them (also in the past). It might be different in France, maybe they are more Selmer oriented for horns and mouthpieces.

Here in Poland although there is are a great many Link players I still think a lot of players go towards the brighter side of things.
In my experience its always been a lot easier to sell a DG (or DG style piece) than a Link, which says something to me.

 

[Nefertiti]

So, I was lucky enough to pick up a recent V16 T9 metal piece "Large Chamber" for a silly price.
- For those that don't know, the Large chamber is marketed as a 1940's style mouthpiece -
I have always wanted to see how these things play, and although a 9 is outside my comfort zone it is a surprisingly easy blow.
From a sound point of view though its really flat, grey and boring.....really uninspiring, with one caveat the upper notes do sing very nicely indeed.
As I am happy on my current pieces, one of my ideas behind getting this (if it didn't play well as is) was to experiment.

So I have thoughts about sending it to someone and getting it closed down to an 8 (better for me) making sure the table / tip / rails etc are fine and then having some sort of baffle built up to give it a bit of higher frequencies, buzz and tone.
By the way the rails are really thick on this piece.
The tip is fine and follows reed contours nicely, but I suspect the table is not truly flat.

I'm just putting this out there in case anyone has done something similar and / or has any ideas.

If you do this, I would suggest putting a putty baffle in it and messing around until you get close to the sound and response you want. Then send that to whoever you have work on it so they have an idea how you want the baffle to be. height, shape, length, etc........

 

[montague saxby]

If you do this, I would suggest putting a putty baffle in it and messing around until you get close to the sound and response you want. Then send that to whoever you have work on it so they have an idea how you want the baffle to be. height, shape, length, etc........

Good idea, thanks Steve, I'll play about with this idea using some "food safe" kids play putty !

 

[meven ASC]

I just finished working on a V16 T6 Large Chamber. They are my least favorite of the V16 Metal with the Small Chamber being my favorite but they are still great nonetheless. The Vandoren metal pieces are excellent blanks and they run circles around the modern Links.

My routine is pretty much the same as Sebastian's on these. Reworking the baffle is the most important step on these Vandorens. The facing is usually pretty good and the table is not too bad but the baffle is terribly setup. I also trim the side rails a little.

Get yours worked on by someone who likes working on them. You won't regret it.

By the way, I don't think they are meant to be like the Tone Master, more like a Zimberoff Vibra Metal (or so I think but I may be completely wrong about that too!)

 

[mrpeebee]

The Vandoren metal pieces are excellent blanks and they run circles around the modern Links.

That might be as a blank, but sound wise it's the other way around (and that's what counts)! For me a bad Link has still a more interesting sound compared to any VD mouthpiece I've tried or heard.

I'm also sure that they are not based on 1940's Otto Link Tone Masters.

 

[meven ASC]

That might be as a blank, but sound wise it's the other way around (and that's what counts)! For me a bad Link has still a more interesting sound compared to any VD mouthpiece I've tried or heard.

I obviously meant soundwise too so I guess we will have to disagree on that one and that's fine by me.

I've had a lot of horrendous modern Links, i can't say the same for the modern Vandoren, they have all been decent to start with.

Of course it comes down to personal taste and what works for you may not work for me and vice versa.