[INTJazz]

Hi Barone fans,

I'm considering a purchase of a barone classic tenor. There have been several glowing reviews posted here, including making favorable comparisons to SBAs and Mark VIs.

On most of the Taiwanese horns I've tried including Mauriat System 76 and Cannonball Vintage Reborn, the tone on the lower end was fat and wonderful, but the tone from A on up to the high F became rather thin and bright (almost harsh sounding) compared to the mid and lower register.

For the sake of reference, this difference in the consistency of the tone does not happen on my Yamaha 82Z tenor. The tone is full and rich all the way to the top of the horn. It does not change character or grow brighter.

My question is: is this an issue on the Barone classic tenors as well or do they manage to be very tonally consistent all the way up the scale? If it is an issue, is it enough to distract for making music or can it be dealt with through adjustments to embouchure or mouthpiece?

thanks,

INTjazz

 

[dogster]

I don't find that with my P Mauriat 67 RUL Alto at all have you played with different MPC's . They are very open horns maybe you are using a bigger tip opening or so

 

[NissanVintageSax]

Mouthpiece and reed choice play a much larger role than the sax itself.

 

[martinm5862]

I don't understand. If the tone on the Z is full and rich all the way up, why switch to a Taiwanese horn and have to adjust?

 

[Atonal]

I don't understand. If the tone on the Z is full and rich all the way up, why switch to a Taiwanese horn and have to adjust?

This is exactly what I was thinking! ***?

 

[INTJazz]

I appreciate the responses but they're not really relevant to my question. I'm looking to hear from Barone Classic tenor owners on this issue. My reasons for considering another tenor are my own, there is nothing wrong with my Z. It's not unusual to own more than one horn...

Regarding the thinness in the upper register of the System 76 and C-ball Vintage Reborn tenors, I A/B'd these horns next to my Yamaha Z using the same mouthpiece and reed choice. The difference was quite apparent. I didn't play a 66R or 67R.

 

[INTJazz]

This is exactly what I was thinking! ***?

Atonal, this is the second time you've commented on one of my topics with a sarcastic remark. Maybe you can refrain from that in the future. "***!?" isn't really contributing anything here and is somewhat offensive.

 

[Buck Laughlin]

atonal, this is the second time you've commented on one of my topics with a sarcastic remark. Maybe you can refrain from that in the future. "***!?" isn't really contributing anything here and is somewhat offensive.

wth?

 

[saxphil]

Mouthpiece and reed choice play a much larger role than the sax itself.

Very true.
Players have reported that the Tenney Jazzmaster fattens up the palm keys of their Mark VI's.

I play a TJ and find the same is true for several of my tenors.
Most notably King Zephyr,The Martin, Mark VII, III and even the Barone that I own, which is an early one,
bought before the two present offerings.

 

[KeithL]

I'll comment but I don't know how much it will help. My main gigging horn for many years was a Yamaha YTS-875 Custom. I bought my Barone Classic Tenor 3+ years ago as a travel horn. At the time I paid about $1250 for a gold-plated tenor from Phil. I figured even if I wasn't crazy about it I would keep my Yamaha from getting knocked around. The Barone quickly became my #1 tenor mostly due to the fuller sound in the upper octave and palm keys. That being said, I also have a Mauriat Sys 76 tenor which is virtually identical to the Barone in keywork and sound. I have not played an 82z so I can't give you a direct comparison there. In addition, Phil may have changed the design of the Classic tenor slightly since I purchased one in '08, you'll have to ask him. You'll need to assess how similar your 82z is to the 875 Custom and whether the Barone Classic has changed slightly over the years. IMO, all things being "near equal" if you don't like the Mauriat System 76, you probably are not going to like the Barone Classic tenor either.

Of course you really need to try them for yourself; as always YMMV.

 

[martinm5862]

I appreciate the responses but they're not really relevant to my question. I'm looking to hear from Barone Classic tenor owners on this issue. My reasons for considering another tenor are my own, there is nothing wrong with my Z. It's not unusual to own more than one horn...

Regarding the thinness in the upper register of the System 76 and C-ball Vintage Reborn tenors, I A/B'd these horns next to my Yamaha Z using the same mouthpiece and reed choice. The difference was quite apparent. I didn't play a 66R or 67R.

This may not be relevant but The YTS 62 is acoustically identical to the 82Z. They both use the same neck and should sound similar in the upper register.

 

[INTJazz]

I'll comment but I don't know how much it will help. My main gigging horn for many years was a Yamaha YTS-875 Custom. I bought my Barone Classic Tenor 3+ years ago as a travel horn. At the time I paid about $1250 for a gold-plated tenor from Phil. I figured even if I wasn't crazy about it I would keep my Yamaha from getting knocked around. The Barone quickly became my #1 tenor mostly due to the fuller sound in the upper octave and palm keys. That being said, I also have a Mauriat Sys 76 tenor which is virtually identical to the Barone in keywork and sound. I have not played an 82z so I can't give you a direct comparison there. In addition, Phil may have changed the design of the Classic tenor slightly since I purchased one in '08, you'll have to ask him. You'll need to assess how similar your 82z is to the 875 Custom and whether the Barone Classic has changed slightly over the years. IMO, all things being "near equal" if you don't like the Mauriat System 76, you probably are not going to like the Barone Classic tenor either.

Of course you really need to try them for yourself; as always YMMV.

Thanks for your helpful reply, Keith.

Maybe I didn't give the System 76 enough of a chance. I only played it for a few minutes in a showroom. Or maybe I'm just spoiled by the meatiness of the upper register on the 82Z and now everything seems "thin" by comparison.

So the Barone Classic is more similar to the System 76 horn than, say the 66R or 67R?

 

[INTJazz]

This may not be relevant but The YTS 62 is acoustically identical to the 82Z. They both use the same neck and should sound similar in the upper register.

Thanks for your reply, Martin. In my experience the 62 is very similar to the 82Z, but I wouldn't say identical. If anything, it should be closer to the 875 because that was the body design for the 82Z.

That said, both the 82Z and 62 that I've played sounded meatier in the upper notes around the palm keys than either the C-ball tenors or the Mauriat 76. Maybe I'm just not used to the blowing feel or lack of resistance around those notes on the Taiwanese horns. I don't know, but I have formed a definite impression that there is some thinness to these notes.

 

[swperry1]

If you are getting a rich and full sounding upper register on an 82z, you are doing something it seems like few can. I tested a couple 82z horns before buying the Barone Vintage tenor...The only thing the 82z had over the Barone was how slick the keywork was. I have heard a lot of players on Yamahas of all makes, and few of them are getting a tone that doesn't sound generic or run of the mill to me.

I know a lot of that comes from the player, and is all my very humble opinion. Yamaha devotees, please take that into consideration before blasting me.

 

[martinm5862]

Thanks for your reply, Martin. In my experience the 62 is very similar to the 82Z, but I wouldn't say identical. If anything, it should be closer to the 875 because that was the body design for the 82Z. (QUOTE)
I'm not speaking from experience. My information comes from Yamaha. I've owned these instruments. The 62 body is the same as the 82 not the 875. It's on the Yamaha website. According to Yamaha the difference is in the metal. I didn't make this stuff up. It's a fact that the 82Z is the same acoustically as the 62. If I wasn't certain I wouldn't have said it. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

 

[Grimmell73]

I don't have a Classic tenor but do have a Classic alto. (My Vintage tenor shows no sign of the thin upper register you describe.) If I use my MC Gregory mouthpiece, I do tend to get a thinner upper register, but only from about C# up to F, worse on each note. However, with the Barone Jazz mouthpiece and a bit more pressure to the air stream, I have no such problem. Tone is even from bottom to top. My bet is that the comment about possible mouthpiece and reed issues appears to be good. I would add that there may be issues in how the upper notes are voiced.

 

[Roger Nordling]

So much confusion here. The classic and vintage of today is not the same horn as Phils earlier models. Maybe Phil will explain when he made the switch to a different manufacturer exactly? Phils horns from today does not look as P.Mauriats to me.

 

[saxphil]

So much confusion here. The classic and vintage of today is not the same horn as Phils earlier models. Maybe Phil will explain when he made the switch to a different manufacturer exactly?

Dunno.
In '07-'08, there were two different Barone tenors, at least cosmetically.

See Giganova's thread, he posts pics of his tenor.
I got mine earlier, Aug-Sept./07.
It is not like Gig's.

 

[INTJazz]

Thanks for your reply, Martin. In my experience the 62 is very similar to the 82Z, but I wouldn't say identical. If anything, it should be closer to the 875 because that was the body design for the 82Z. (QUOTE)
I'm not speaking from experience. My information comes from Yamaha. I've owned these instruments. The 62 body is the same as the 82 not the 875. It's on the Yamaha website. According to Yamaha the difference is in the metal. I didn't make this stuff up. It's a fact that the 82Z is the same acoustically as the 62. If I wasn't certain I wouldn't have said it. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

You're right, my mistake. I got the two confused.

 

[INTJazz]

If you are getting a rich and full sounding upper register on an 82z, you are doing something it seems like few can. I tested a couple 82z horns before buying the Barone Vintage tenor...The only thing the 82z had over the Barone was how slick the keywork was. I have heard a lot of playets on Yamahas of all makes, and few of them are getting a tone that doesn't sound generic or run of the mill to me.

I know a lot of that comes from the player, and is all my very humble opinion. Yamaha devotees, please take that into consideration before blasting me.

Well, I'm using a G3 neck and a Jody Jazz HR* piece. When I was playing the G1 neck the upper notes were definitely not as meaty and more "raspy" sounding.

I wouldn't blast you for saying that. I'm getting a very nice tone on my 82Z and it doesn't sound generic to me at all. When I tried playing a 62 and a 475, that's when my tone was more "generic" sounding.

The G3 neck makes a significant improvement in tonal quality in my opinion.