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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So Iv'e been playing on a battered yts-23 for about 2 years. The octave key moves very slow, the neck has a dent and it forces the air upwars, the part bellow the bell has a MASSIVE dent in it and so does the bell. There are also some problems with the Bb key not sealing and the low Bb key has fell off ( it was put back in badly). Anyway, I have 2 questions

1. By upgrading my tenor (I rent the yts-23 from school) how much better will the sound be? I am aware that who's behind the horn is more important


2. I am thinking of going for a selmer ts711( selmer prelude), a yamaha 280 or some kind of jupiter. I am also open to getting a second hand saxophone in good playing condition. Thanks:twisted::|:(:mrgreen::bluewink::bluewink::bluewink:
 

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Welcome to the forum!

If you've been playing for two years, and you're serious enough about it to be upgrading your horn, you already know the answer to #1 is: it all depends. Depends on you, what you mean by "better" sound, what you finally decide to purchase, and about 100 other things. But I will say this: the YT-23, while being a wonderful horn for the price, is not easy to get a rich tone out of, so I'd say the chances that you can do better are pretty good.

What should you get? Again, it all depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is your budget. Speaking very generally, I believe you're better off getting a used pro-level horn than getting an "intermediate" model. Either way, the best thing to do is try as many horns as you possibly can before you make any decision. It's hard to be patient in this kind of situation, but seriously, you need to play lots and lots of horns before you'll know what's right for you.
 

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Perhaps you can list your max budget and some suggestions could be made to fit within that.

If You're looking under the $1000 dollar price range you are generally sticking yourself in the Student model or perhaps vintage, lower end professional horn area. Something like a Buescher True tone or a Martin Indiana.

Likely you are fairly used to the key lay out of your Yamaha and might want to pursue something that has a similar feel. In which case most of the modern student horns would be in that general ball park. But if you are willing to get used to a slightly different feel you could potentially open your options up a bit more and find yourself something fairly nice and fulfilling.

Also, consider just finding a solid playing (recently serviced) horn within your budget to keep you going for some years to come and then if the passion keeps flowing for you and you want to continue with a nice upgrade you could probably sell on your horn to detour some of the costs.

It really depends on what you're looking for right now.
 

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Don't buy a new Yamaha student model. They're available in good condition used everywhere for less than half the new price.
 

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So Iv'e been playing on a battered yts-23 for about 2 years. The octave key moves very slow, the neck has a dent and it forces the air upwars, the {bow} has a MASSIVE dent in it and so does the bell. There are also some problems with the Bb key not sealing and the low Bb key has fell off ( it was put back in badly).
:|..........

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.........................:|

So, you need a new sax ?

You do realize that repairing the YTS 23 will of course make the horn perform better (the way it was designed to) and will likely cost far less money than buying a new sax of equal quality, right ?

I post this because, if you have convinced yourself you NEED a new (to you) horn....there is little anyone can say to change your mind. But if you are buying a new horn because you are struggling with your existing horn....a very real option is to fix the existing horn.

I guarantee you...guarantee...that from your description, your sax has at least 4 or 5 other significant problems going on with it that you are not aware of.

So if you are unhappy with sound and playability, it isn't because it's a 23...it's because your horn is in very bad shape.

You should consider getting a repair estimate.

If you do so....do not necessarily just give it to a tech and ask 'what does it need ?'

(Because this is like an Antelope walking up to a Lion and asking 'are you hungry ?').

Approach the tech and say "I have a budget of $XXX, can you get this sax into good playing condition so I do not have to struggle with it anymore ?"

What would $XXX be ?

IMHO, in the US, around $600-650.
If a tech here were to charge over $650 to repair a 23 to good, solid playing and structural shape.....then it is probably worth it to buy another horn - and not put that $650 into the 23.
But if a tech can do the repairs necessary to make the horn play very well, and look significantly better, for $600 or less...get the repair.

Just another option to consider.

You may likely save significant money over buying another horn, and with some of that money you can go mouthpiece hunting if you wish to move the tone of the instrument in a different direction. There are some good mouthpieces out there for $100 or less....



 

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I cannot believe that you are renting a horn in this kind of condition. I suggest you request that the horn is repaired or exchanged.

So Iv'e been playing on a battered yts-23 for about 2 years. The octave key moves very slow, the neck has a dent and it forces the air upwars, the part bellow the bell has a MASSIVE dent in it and so does the bell. There are also some problems with the Bb key not sealing and the low Bb key has fell off ( it was put back in badly). Anyway, I have 2 questions

1. By upgrading my tenor (I rent the yts-23 from school) how much better will the sound be? I am aware that who's behind the horn is more important
 

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If the choice is between a modern Selmer(-Conn) USA or a Yamaha student to intermediate, I'd go with the Yamaha. YTS-23 actually produces a decent sound. See if you can find a good deal on a yts-62 i or ii. This would definitely feel and sound like a step up.
 

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First option is to return your sax and get another 23 as a rental. You don't have to continue to rent a badly damaged horn.
Second option is to buy a sax: a 23 in good condition is one choice.
A Selmer Prelude 711 is not an improvement over a 23.
A Yamaha 280 is not an improvement over a 23.
A Jupiter 500 or 700 series is not an improvement over a 23.
Tell us your budget - we can make suggestions.
What mouthpiece are you using? You should probably upgrade it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
First option is to return your sax and get another 23 as a rental. You don't have to continue to rent a badly damaged horn.
Second option is to buy a sax: a 23 in good condition is one choice.
A Selmer Prelude 711 is not an improvement over a 23.
A Yamaha 280 is not an improvement over a 23.
A Jupiter 500 or 700 series is not an improvement over a 23.
Tell us your budget - we can make suggestions.
What mouthpiece are you using? You should probably upgrade it.
To answer all of your questions,
I cant fix the horn as the school owns it. I play on a rubber meyer mouth piece that is size 5. My budget is about 2000 dollars ( 1500 usd ), But I can go up to about 3000 ( 2250 usd ) My school wont fix it, so repairing it is out of the option. I would ask for a different horn but my only other option is playing a baritone. I am happy to get a 2nd hand horn, but im just sceptical because ive had so many problems with this horn im just kind of scared. Anyway, thank you all for your advice
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The sound im looking for is a warm and bright sound. im not sure if it sent so im going to say it again. I cannot get my horn fixed because it is the schools and they will not fix it and my dad is convinced it's "fine", my mum is not as stupid. my price is 0-2000$ ausd ( 750$-1500$ usd ) i can push it a few hundred dollars but i would perfer to use my extra money on a mouth piece. I use a hard rubber meyer mouth piece, size 5. I am more than happy to get a 2nd hand saxophone in good condition or one in bad condition that i can get fixed. There arent much sax shops near where i live so it will be hard to playtest unless i travel. I will have to give the horn back to school and then i will have to either buy or rent a different saxophone. Thanks for your advice
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
* I have to give the saxophone back when the last term of this school ends in 2ish months. I will ask my teacher, but he hasnt been playing the sax for as much as some of you. Thanks for your opinois
 

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If the school horns are in that bad of shape, I agree that you should probably try to buy your own horn and you should be able to get a very decent used tenor for that budget. If you shop around, I would think you could get a totally playable tenor for $1,000 or less and have plenty of cash left over for a nice mouthpiece. I'd recommend a handcrafted copy of a vintage mouthpiece, but that's a different discussion.

Any horn made by one of the major brands that hasn't been abused should work. Be aware, however, that horns need to be serviced about once per year to fix leaks that develop with normal wear and tear, so if you own the horn, you will need to find a way to come up with the cash for basic maintenance. Around here a basic annual tune-up runs around $50 per year, but your family is probably spending more than that per year to rent the horn you have now, anyway.

Yamaha, Vito, Jupiter, Cannonball, and some of the less-hyped vintage brands (Buescher, Martin, Beagnier, Noblet, Grassi, Orsi) should be in your price range. You'll definitely want to go used to stretch your dollars. A few sellers on this site, including JayePDX, specialize in rehabbing and selling inexpensive vintage horns, so they would be good people to talk to. Look for something that's been serviced recently. Some of the horns available online seem really cheap until you realize they need to be completely re-padded or overhauled, which adds hundreds of dollars to the seemingly "low" price.

Good luck and keep practicing!
 

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I've never played a Chateau. However, my understanding is that the company that manufactures the Chateau line (Tenon Industrial Company) also makes the Kessler line of instruments. I own a Kessler "Custom Handmade" tenor and absolutely love it. In fact, I play it more than any of my other horns and I own some more prestigious brands.

However, I would expect Chateau makes everything from inexpensive "student" to expensive higher-end models, so there is probably a lot of variability in quality. Your best bet would be to travel to a city where you can try a lot of different horns to see which ones work for you and which one's don't or else to buy from an online dealer who will allow you to return it if it doesn't work out. You'll probably have to eat the shipping costs in that case, so be aware of that.

If you do buy a new Chateau and then decide to sell it later, expect to get less than half of what you paid for it. That's always the case when buying a new horn, which is why most of us would recommend buying a used instrument. However, some brands (Yamaha, Selmer Paris, Yanigasawa) have a better resale value than others.
 

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The sound im looking for is a warm and bright sound. im not sure if it sent so im going to say it again. I cannot get my horn fixed because it is the schools and they will not fix it and my dad is convinced it's "fine", my mum is not as stupid. my price is 0-2000$ ausd ( 750$-1500$ usd ) i can push it a few hundred dollars but i would perfer to use my extra money on a mouth piece. I use a hard rubber meyer mouth piece, size 5. I am more than happy to get a 2nd hand saxophone in good condition or one in bad condition that i can get fixed. There arent much sax shops near where i live so it will be hard to playtest unless i travel. I will have to give the horn back to school and then i will have to either buy or rent a different saxophone. Thanks for your advice
OK you hadn't noted that in your initial post....

Kind of amazing, as Doc said, that the school would give you something in that bad of shape and refuse to service it, even.

But that's beside the point.

You are Down Under. Some of the above suggestions on models are fairly good suggestions. But I will say....

T There arent much sax shops near where i live so it will be hard to playtest unless i travel. I will have to give the horn back to school and then i will have to either buy or rent a different saxophone. Thanks for your advice
...given your situation, quite honestly: ANY reputed brand-name sax is gonna be a BIG improvement over playing a crippled 23...which is essentially what you have there.

So it's not really a MUST that you start traveling long distances to try out other horns. It's pretty darn good odds that just buying a used model, brand-name, good reputation and in good tack, from a seller who has a return policy...even without first trying it...wouldn't get you into a bad situation at all.

A Meyer 5 tends to blow round and dark...but it won't do much on a junked horn. There is no need, necessarily, to 'upgrade' from a Meyer - I wouldn't give up on the Meyer yet...I bet it'd sound pretty smooth and full on a sax in good playing shape.



 

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First option is to return your sax and get another 23 as a rental. You don't have to continue to rent a badly damaged horn.
Second option is to buy a sax: a 23 in good condition is one choice.
A Selmer Prelude 711 is not an improvement over a 23.
A Yamaha 280 is not an improvement over a 23.
A Jupiter 500 or 700 series is not an improvement over a 23.
Tell us your budget - we can make suggestions.
What mouthpiece are you using? You should probably upgrade it.
Actually, a 7XX series or above I consider a better horn than a 23, providing the Jupe was made after around '00....having worked on many of both brands....
Jupes are good horns, they don't get their deserved respect here, although they have always been a successful company that produces solid stuff (after their initial decade of existence).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I have played on a few of my friends tenors and I've noticed how much easier and smoother it is. The overtones and altissimoand everything is just a lot smoother. My yamaha can play, but it dosent sing for me. Also, the meyer 5 is also the schools mpc. Bit unusual for a yamaha model. I dont want to really get into mouth pieces cause thats a discussion for another day. Would you reccomend a meyer mpc ( over a stock mpc like a 4c )?

Thanks, happpy playing all
 

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Adam...listen to earlier posts.

A Mark VI is not going to sing if in poor adjustment.

that is your first problem..PERIOD!


I would listen to G. When you rent a horn its like renting an apartment. Would you call the plumber and pay the bill or call the land lord if your shower was broken? Now if you knocked the whole thing out of adjustment that is another situation. One way or another get a horn that is in adjustment.

If you are serious and want your own horn that is fine. If you are planning to spend serious money on a horn do not treat the mouthpiece like it is an accessory. A mouthpiece is a primary component of the instrument. At two years I would not say buy a 500 dollar mouthpiece but Id suggest a nice used one (to save money) at the right size. Id budget in 150-200. On a lucky day that can get you a good used piece that is well made.

BUT stop comparing your pooly adjusted horn to anything. Its really messing up your thought process.
 
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