Sax on the Web Forum banner
21 - 40 of 42 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW member/, Official SOTW Sister
Joined
·
19,580 Posts
I 'worked' for a long time with Jr/Sr High school kids. I call what they suffer from as ADOS. Attention Deficit...OOOOH Shiney!
Most were clarinet students. "Mr. So-and-So thinks I need a new ligature to help my sound."
"OK...." Dig in my bag and pull out a NASTY looking Maritn France lig. "Here, try this one. I save it for 'special' performances."
They try it and think it's the best thing since Spaghetti'-Ohs. Their sound hasn't changed. It fits the same as the 'stock' lig that came with their clarinet.
The only difference is that I said it was one that I saved for 'special' therefore making it 'better'.
Mind games and hype. :)
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,675 Posts
I have a table full of ligs and USE to have a table full of mpc's. No matter which HR mouthpiece I still keep going back to my reliable old STOCK (?) selmer 2 screw.
The above quote is the truth.

Saxplayerjoe, I know you might not want to hear this, you want to try every gadget out there (I don't blame you), you're young, and you probably won't believe what I'm going to say. If you do take my advice, you'll save yourself considerable time and money over the years, but I realize you might have to find out for yourself, which is fine.

I've tried almost every lig out there (including all the ones you are asking about), I have a drawer full of them, and now with 40 years of playing under my belt, I'm using a metal 2-screw lig on HR tenor mpc. Why? Because it fits well and holds the reed firmly to the table of the mpc, which is the most important thing in a lig. And it plays as well, with the same sound, as every one of those other ligs I've used in the past. So save yourself the trouble, time, money, and energy and simply use a metal 2-screw on your HR mpc. You won't find anything that works better. And yeah, I guess that's a lecture, but it's the truth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Hey hey hey.
I'm not just a snobby high school student here. I practice 6 hours a day and I know that that is the most important thing that can help someone develop their sound.
But look at it this way. Have you ever seen a professional perform live with a stock lig..? I mean, honestly. They all have their preference, right? Well, I'm just trying to find mine so I can start getting used to it immediately. I've tried different ligs on my other mouthpieces and I have noticed tiny little differences in resistance and/or projection, and as long as I can find one that helps me even the tiniest little bit to make my sound better and more to my liking, than I'm going to get it. Alright?
There are so many players with stock ligs its not even funny.....Ok so check this out. I've been playing for 19 years, and I have the Vandoren metal lig, the rovner eddie daniels lig, and the FL ultimate..each one has their own thing going on, but some of that is placebo and most of it only YOU will notice it... just work on your over tones and longtones... I used to do 5 hours of long tones in highschool...(needless to say I was the one people asked about my sound)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Howdy. :)

As humans most of us are programmed to chase shiny objects. The thought of a new thing that could affect a rapid positive change is alluring. It releases dopamine, giving us the same momentary rush as when we check our facebook profile, etc.

The problem is where does it end?

For years I played the stock Selmer hard rubber ligature on my link b/c I saw that's what Stan Getz used. Then I saw Redman using a Rovner and I switched. That was 15 years ago. Point is, it makes the most minute difference.

Focus on developing your sound every day. That will always be mandatory and always trump the latest shiny object.

Just my two cents.
That's all I've been working on lately; sound. I've been doing embouchure experiments and throat experiments help me with things like blowing through low notes easily and whatnot. Now, all I need help with (even though I'm going to continue working with developing my sound every day) is improv... I don't even know where to start. I've been writing out my solos and transcribing from the recordings of the tunes we're doing and whatnot and then I see stuff like our all-state tenor 1 player play all these amazing improvisational runs and he sounds absolutely incredible... I just need help getting to that point:p Never had lessons:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I 'worked' for a long time with Jr/Sr High school kids. I call what they suffer from as ADOS. Attention Deficit...OOOOH Shiney!
Most were clarinet students. "Mr. So-and-So thinks I need a new ligature to help my sound."
"OK...." Dig in my bag and pull out a NASTY looking Maritn France lig. "Here, try this one. I save it for 'special' performances."
They try it and think it's the best thing since Spaghetti'-Ohs. Their sound hasn't changed. It fits the same as the 'stock' lig that came with their clarinet.
The only difference is that I said it was one that I saved for 'special' therefore making it 'better'.
Mind games and hype. :)
I like this. Haha.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Just take something simple, like a blues and play up and down the chord tones, then maybe scales based off them. Then try to play the chords while using leading tones to the next chord. You can also take a chord on a piano and play ontop of that and listen to what sounds you like. get that in your ear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,783 Posts
You can't learn to improv without the proper setup ... go buy youself a an Ultimate Meyvansel OlegYamrov lig then come back and we will talk about improv ... as long as you are on a stock lig you will only be able to play stock music
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,596 Posts
Yeah but I'm sure they all still played on other ligs right? And for people like Trane, he used an STM back when there were no alternate ligs for that. I still use my stock on my STM. I use my stock on 3 more of my mouthpieces too. All I'm asking is for is a person with little experience with other ligs here, not a lecture...
All the players I named used stock ligs till they passed.

And even back in the day Brilhart made those fancy plastic plate ligatures that everyone's trying to get today because of Kenny Garrett.

And stop assuming everything is a lecture, you sated that pros don't use stock ligatures and I had a rebuttal to your statement. And if you look at my page you'd know that I don't use stock ligatures most of the time.

But on answering your question non of those ligs will make you sound like the Tenor players from the 1 o'clock lab band.

Ligatures IMHO do effect your sound, but it's subtle. It might make your sound slightly edgier, or rounder, or darker depending on which you use, but in terms of equipment that effect your sound the most, it has to be your Mouthpiece, and Reed choice. But nothing is as important YOUR sound concept. If you want to sound like them, hear their sound in your head, and try to emulate it. you'll naturally start adapting to sound like they do.

and if you're looking at free-blowing the Vandoren Optimum is going to be more free-blowing of the two IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,131 Posts
There are so many players with stock ligs its not even funny.....Ok so check this out. I've been playing for 19 years, and I have the Vandoren metal lig, the rovner eddie daniels lig, and the FL ultimate..each one has their own thing going on, but some of that is placebo and most of it only YOU will notice it... just work on your over tones and longtones... I used to do 5 hours of long tones in highschool...(needless to say I was the one people asked about my sound)
No offense, but i don't think it is a very good idea to do long tones for 5 hours a day. If you do it that long you don't have enough time to practise other important things and you probably will not have enough time for your sociallife either. I also doubt that 5 hours of long tones really guarantee you to get your sound or any good sound at all.
I'm a fan of long tones and once was doing them for hours myself until i realized that you will not benefit more of them if you expand the time for long tones too much.
Doing it for that long is like bodybuilding, more of an obsession but if you suddenly want to take a yoga class or want to do some endurance sport (aka improvisation or anything else related to other aspects of music that don't deal that much with sound in the first place) you will suddenly realize that you can't do it and something is missing that you need.
Long tones are good if you don't exaggerate it but having an idea about how you want to sound like is even better. And don't forget even while working on scales and other things your sound will also improve. Sometimes sounddevelopment will take time, forcing it to happen faster will lead to nothing. Also while getting older your idea of how you want to sound like could change several times.
There are only few things for sure what will make your sound get really bad or not to improve: the wrong gear for your chops and if you do not practise at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
No offense, but i don't think it is a very good idea to do long tones for 5 hours a day. If you do it that long you don't have enough time to practise other important things and you probably will not have enough time for your sociallife either. I also doubt that 5 hours of long tones really guarantee you to get your sound or any good sound at all.
I'm a fan of long tones and once was doing them for hours myself until i realized that you will not benefit more of them if you expand the time for long tones too much.
Doing it for that long is like bodybuilding, more of an obsession but if you suddenly want to take a yoga class or want to do some endurance sport (aka improvisation or anything else related to other aspects of music that don't deal that much with sound in the first place) you will suddenly realize that you can't do it and something is missing that you need.
Long tones are good if you don't exaggerate it but having an idea about how you want to sound like is even better. And don't forget even while working on scales and other things your sound will also improve. Sometimes sounddevelopment will take time, forcing it to happen faster will lead to nothing. Also while getting older your idea of how you want to sound like could change several times.
There are only few things for sure what will make your sound get really bad or not to improve: the wrong gear for your chops and if you do not practise at all.
Well, believe it or not it worked and my sound got pretty good... I went to a performance highschool so I did alot of playing. And a social life? I didn't have one really in highschool. My friends would go to parties or whatever, but I just practiced or hung out at home. I'm not telling people to do the same, its just what I did and it got me what I wanted. I fixed issues with my embrochure, with my sound. What worked for me prob wont work for you. Bodybuilding? So what i got good chops out of the deal so I'm happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Well, believe it or not it worked and my sound got pretty good... I went to a performance highschool so I did alot of playing. And a social life? I didn't have one really in highschool. My friends would go to parties or whatever, but I just practiced or hung out at home. I'm not telling people to do the same, its just what I did and it got me what I wanted. I fixed issues with my embrochure, with my sound. What worked for me prob wont work for you. Bodybuilding? So what i got good chops out of the deal so I'm happy.
I'm in the same boat. I get invited to a lot of stuff and I can get out as much as I want but I'm always at home tweaking with my sound or my embouchure or something. Lokg tones though... I do them as I'm warming up before I play maybe for 5 minutes a day but that's just to get my chops loose and more maneuverable. For me as long as I have a sound in my head I'm going for then I can hit it, but long tones right now only help me with things like tonguing low notes at piano and such...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
You know, I keep wanting to believe that all ligatures are created equal, because that's the kind of guy I am. I like to think that someday when I'm good enough to boast about my skills, I'll be the kind of player that doesn't show up with a big flashy setup but still blows everyone out of the water. A lot of the best players I've met are like that. That being said, the closest I can come to that notion is that most ligatures are created equal. It's kind of like how I'm not reed picky, though I can easily tell when a reed just isn't doing the trick; sometimes a stock ligature isn't as useful as it ought to be. For instance, much as I love my Meyer, the lig it comes with really isn't very good. I used it for a few weeks and while it sounded alright in the low and mid range, my altissimo just wouldn't pop; a few tentative squeaks perhaps, but nothing I could call a note. So I switched to using the Vandoren leather ligature that I use on my other mouthpiece and lo and behold the problem was completely solved. Then again, I'm young yet; I'm also still in high school (though only for 28 more days by my count).

I agree that ligatures are the least important part of the sound you want. I also agree that it's more important to practice as much as you can and to have a horn and mouthpiece you like. However, I do believe that a ligature has an albeit small effect on your sound. Maybe it's not something the audience notices, but I notice, and every little bit counts. Who knows- maybe I'm crazy or just reacting to a placebo effect or something like that, but as long as I have a little more confidence and piece of mind, I'm totally okay with that.
 

·
Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008-2017
Joined
·
2,280 Posts
Bob:

I like very much your sound and music. By the way, what Rovner do you use? Is it a Light?

Howdy. :)

As humans most of us are programmed to chase shiny objects. The thought of a new thing that could affect a rapid positive change is alluring. It releases dopamine, giving us the same momentary rush as when we check our facebook profile, etc.

The problem is where does it end?

For years I played the stock Selmer hard rubber ligature on my link b/c I saw that's what Stan Getz used. Then I saw Redman using a Rovner and I switched. That was 15 years ago. Point is, it makes the most minute difference.

Focus on developing your sound every day. That will always be mandatory and always trump the latest shiny object.

Just my two cents.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
13,537 Posts
I will take a flat table and a straight facing over an expensive ligature any day of the week.

...of course given the choice I will take both.

Id like fries with that too :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
I will take a flat table and a straight facing over an expensive ligature any day of the week.

...of course given the choice I will take both.

Id like fries with that too :)
You mean french fries I guess???
I like french fries just as my french lig and horn.

Merci bien et au revoir!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Bob:

I like very much your sound and music. By the way, what Rovner do you use? Is it a Light?
Couple things...

1) Thanks for the nice comments about ! I appreciate that.
2) I have no idea about the Rovner. I can tell you it's not fancy and I've used the same one for 15 years. There are no metal bolsters (or whatever they're called). It's a basic Rovner. Does the job (i.e. it holds the reed on the mouthpiece).
3) I have no idea what a "flat table" is. Heck, I don't even know what a table is (on a mouthpiece). :)
 

·
Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008-2017
Joined
·
2,280 Posts
Ok... have now a "A Live Life" on my iPod... is it at the cover picture the Rovner? I cannot tell. It is on "Can't Wait for Perfect", also in my iPod....

Couple things...

1) Thanks for the nice comments about ! I appreciate that.
2) I have no idea about the Rovner. I can tell you it's not fancy and I've used the same one for 15 years. There are no metal bolsters (or whatever they're called). It's a basic Rovner. Does the job (i.e. it holds the reed on the mouthpiece).
3) I have no idea what a "flat table" is. Heck, I don't even know what a table is (on a mouthpiece). :)
 
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
Top