[Hassles]

Of late I have had cause to consider the ugly side of saxophone maintenance and repair. I always seem to be seeking a more effective penetrant for those rusted and fused hinge rods - not that hinge rods are always in place. I was pondering upon the ugliest thing I have witnessed thus far which is - in the absence of a hinge rod, somebody cut the end off a small nail, slid this through the post, the hinge tube and into receiving post and then - hammered (peened) both ends of that nail so it would not loosen. One on a palm key and another on a side key. These nails, on a Gebruder Monnig tenor saxophone, remain in place while I muse over a suitable solution and whether or not the beat up old Monnig is worthy of my efforts. So - to other techs here at SOTW - whats the ugliest thing you have seen? I recently asked a tech who stated "when I was in repair school somebody came in with a (Selmer) mark six which has been run over by a train and we were asked to repair it". He also stated being presented with a saxophone that had been run over by a car.

 

[milandro]

On a side note, this being a mönning, a flute maker, they may have used pins

 

[Hassles]

G'day Milandro - no mate, no pins, cut off nails. Every other palm and side key and all other keys are attached with hinge rods. I have two Monnig saxes and no pins. I don't wanna' use my Dremel coz' it doesn't provide the accuracy required to tackle the job and I don't have a mill or magnification devices so sensitive that may tempt me to use a rotary tool. Its just plain ugly.

 

[Oric Muso]

I call these Wollmanisms - after a certain chap that used to ask how to repair something and then decide he knew better and decided he would try something else.
Fortunately I don't get too many Wollmanisms. We used to see some 'restored' saxophones a customer kept buying from Ebay which had cork stuck to the wrong bits etc, but usually nothing too bad. The worst fixes are 'Dad repairs'. Trumpets with a stuck mouthpiece are good for this. First they pull the thing so hard to breaks the solder joints and bends things. Then they try and stick it back together with super glue(Crazy Glue).
On saxophones it can be bending bell dents back with a pair of pliers, making things worse. We get a few odd things screwed into the guards when the guard screws go missing. If it doesn't fit, drill it out and then stick a nut and bolt in - that'll do it.
Again, I see worse things with brass instruments. I had a euphonium with a sticky valve so they took it out and filed it -seemingly with a rasp. Then they found the valve stuck even worse and they wanted me to sort it out.

 

[milandro]

Cheers @Hassels , and a G'day to you to , I misread you post, I thought you were talking of rods or screws with pins

 

[JayeLID]

I call these Wollmanisms - after a certain chap that used to ask how to repair something and then decide he knew better and decided he would try something else.

I was unfortunate enough to have actually once sold a horn to this fellow, I think. The experience did not go well....(if it couldn't have been the same fellow, this must have been his son....)

 

[JayeLID]

I have always said....the worst damage to repair...is the damage caused by a BAD repair.

 

[KeithL]

Yeah, one of the repair guys I used to go to years ago had a sign over his bench that said something like;
Labor - $30 /hr
$40 /hr if you watch
$50 /hr if you tried to fix it yourself first

 

[datsaxman]

That is a typical shop sign in moto / auto repair. Not even kidding at our shop.

 

[JayeLID]

Yeah, one of the repair guys I used to go to years ago had a sign over his bench that said something like;
Labor - $30 /hr
$40 /hr if you watch
$50 /hr if you tried to fix it yourself first

Egggggselllllent.....

 

[saxoclese]

My mentor used to say professionals are capable of doing more damage to instruments than amateurs because they have more powerful tools to work with.

 

[CJ1972]

I have seen a post soldered onto a piece of sheet brass that was pop riveted on. Presumably because they were confident enough to solder direct. Soldering generally seems to fall into two camps - nice and neat and the ‘layered on with a trowel’ approach.

 

[Hornlip]

I’ve seen a couple of horns that had a palm key held in by a cotter pin. At least that’s easy enough to remove!

 

[Hassles]

I've seen a couple of horns that had a palm key held in by a cotter pin.

wow - interesting how inventive some people are.

 

[Hassles]

I have seen a post soldered onto a piece of sheet brass that was pop riveted on. Presumably because they were confident enough to solder direct. Soldering generally seems to fall into two camps - nice and neat and the 'layered on with a trowel' approach.

Is there no limit to mans ingenuity?

 

[CJ1972]

Is there no limit to mans ingenuity?

I guess if it's a cheap horn that would otherwise be binned then it makes sense. What annoys me is when you see bodged repairs on decent horns that should been looked after.

 

[Hassles]

A cheap, poorly made, low quality chisel needs to be sharpened just the same as a good one if it is to function. A $500 horn costs just as much to service as a $5000 horn. IF its worthy of fixing it should be fixed well.

 

[CJ1972]

A cheap, poorly made, low quality chisel needs to be sharpened just the same as a good one if it is to function. A $500 horn costs just as much to service as a $5000 horn. IF its worthy of fixing it should be fixed well.

But if a horn worth $100 Needs $500 work then it will either be scrapped or bodged unless it has sentimental value. In that case is it a bad thing that it is bodged but still enjoyed?

 

[Hassles]

Perspective. A cheap horn is cheap. Replace it - don' repair it. Great Grand dads cheap horn is not worthy of the bother - Great Grand dads King or Cousenon or Buescher or Buffet (for example) is another thing regardless of condition because of its potential. Even sentimentality has a value just as readily as a validity. Analogy - Grand Dad's moke v Grand Dad's Ferrari. The Ferrari is worth fixing.

 

[skeller047]

Perspective. A cheap horn is cheap. Replace it - don' repair it. Great Grand dads cheap horn is not worthy of the bother - Great Grand dads King or Cousenon or Buescher or Buffet (for example) is another thing regardless of condition because of its potential. Even sentimentality has a value just as readily as a validity. Analogy - Grand Dad's moke v Grand Dad's Ferrari. The Ferrari is worth fixing.

That's an interesting perspective, but the really interesting part is that a horn might have value as an instrument that is significantly higher than its value as an investment. The Beaugnier-Vito I just bought for $320 needs a full repad, and there are some issues with key fit, but it is definitely worth fixing, from a player's standpoint. As an investment in dollars it's a losing proposition. As an investment in music, it's a huge win. So what is its real value?