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Discussion Starter #1
Northern Colorado without loans, Purchase with loans.
I plan on studying Jazz Alto Saxophone.

The sax professor at Colorado is Andrew Dahlke and Purchase has Mark Vinci, Eric Alexander, Jon Gordon, Ralph Lalama, and Steve Wilson.

Please share your opinions with the loans in mind because money is a main part of it.
 

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At Purchase you'll be near NYC and the scene there. There will be jazz players on a higher level at SUNY Purchase and in the city. So the location and experience are what you'd be paying for.

I don't really know the deal with Greeley other than Dahlke. He's actually an old buddy of mine. We were roommates in NYC about 20 years ago. He plays jazz and classical saxophone and he's a great cat.

I'd say, go to Purchase for the environment. NYC is where it's at. You should be in or near the city as much as possible. For that reason, I would also apply to CUNY (Queens College), WPU (William Patterson), City College (in Harlem) and any other NYC area music schools. Juilliard, Manhattan School, The New School and NYU will be more expensive.
 

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Since money is a main part of your decision keep in mind that Westchester County (where SUNY is located) is one of the most expensive places to live in the USA. Food, gasoline, rent, entertainment etc are all expensive. On the plus side you will be 25 miles from New Yor City which is one of the cultural centers in the US. I don't know much about SUNY's music and arts program so I can't comment on that aspect. Maybe another way to evaluate it is; what do you plan on doing in life once you get your degree? Which school would better prepare you for that journey?

Good Luck
Diskman50
 

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Oh wow that's very insightful, thank you so much!

New School is my first option (I'm in love with the school) but I'm still waiting for them to give me my financial package so I have to think about where I would go if I couldn't afford to go to New School, which is very likely.

My private teacher told me to go to Purchase over Queens and City College, which are the two CUNYs I was once considering. Do you have any opinions of those schools?
 

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Purchase has a GREAT straight-ahead program. Eric Alexander & Ralph Lalama are both on faculty there. Part-time, but I'll bet you'd still be taking lessons with them. Don't know much about UNC, but if I could do it all over again...Purchase would be at the top of my list if I was going into jazz studies.
 

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Northern Colorado has long had a great jazz program. If you can do it without loans, do it. My experience is that people get out of music because they can't make enough money. Don't pull the rug out from under yourself financially before you even start to try and make it on your own. Dahlke will show you exactly what you need to shed. Practice hard and get a grad assistantship to a top jazz school and you'll leave with degrees, chops, and no debt.
 

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If I could go to a school in NYC that doesn't have a music program but is cheap enough that I could afford private lessons would it be worth it?
 

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I spent a term at Purchase myself. I agree with Barry that the proximity to NY makes for good players teaching there. You'll also have a diversity of students that you couldn't attract in CO. (Don't expect too many females, tho, even in NY. We had three in an incoming class of 100.)

The downside is that everybody is always overscheduled. Contact with your profs is limited, and so, I gathered, were chances to play for the public. The SUNY system also supports a heavy bureaucracy, which matters when you want to get anything done.
 

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No. :)

Greeley has a great jazz program and it's cheap for you. Do the NYC thing once you've built up some serious chops. That or if you really want NYC, move there and establish residency and then get in-state tuition.

Being in a jazz program surrounded by other serious players is a valuable experience. You will not have that community at JoSchmo school w/o a music program. Even if you are paying too much for a fancy NYC private teacher, that definitely does not mean you will find yourself a part of a vibrant musical community. You gotta have massive chops to break into NYC music communities. UNCO is a steal. Proximity to Denver will fill in the big city gaps that Greeley can't provide.
 

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You're not stuck once you make a decision. Try Greeley, then, if you're not getting what you need, transfer. Then, of course, there's always grad school.
 

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@Paulwl: I'm a female haha so it doesn't matter if there aren't too many.

@ everyone else: Do you believe that jazz is an art that requires a degree? I'm struggling to explain to my parents why I need a major in Jazz Studies and in doing so, I'm beginning to question my passion in jazz. People are telling me that the obvious route to any serious musician in my case would be to go to UNCO Greeley or take out a lot of loans and go to The New School. And yet, I'm thinking about being in the city and studying with a private teacher instead. What are your opinions on jazz and surviving in the future? (I know this is a bit irrelevant and could be personal, but please bear with me because I feel like I'm about to make the biggest decision of my life so far. Thank you!)
 

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No. :)

Greeley has a great jazz program and it's cheap for you. Do the NYC thing once you've built up some serious chops. That or if you really want NYC, move there and establish residency and then get in-state tuition.
Good advice.

I did a joint tour of Romania with my college jazz band and the UNC Lab Band 1 last summer. They had some killer sax players in the section.

Aside from those two, have you considered University of North Texas? Oldest jazz program in the nation, low tuition, close to Dallas, and great teachers.
 

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Jazz, in the future, will be like classical music. It will exist in concert halls and performing arts centres just as symphonies, opera companies and ballet are presented now. The prototype for this is Jazz @ Lincoln Center. In 20 years or so, every major city that has a symphony will probably have a jazz orchestra. I hate to say this, but jazz is dead in pop culture. It will live forever in institutions. We're in a transitional period now.

Anyway, you should apply for the major NYC schools. You might be eligible for scholarship. A "serious" musician will want to go to school in NYC. You learn this music on the bandstand, not in a classroom. You need to share the bandstand with mature, advanced musicians that are much better than you. This will help motivate and inspire. NYC is the best place for those opportunities.
 

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Jazz, in the future, will be like classical music. It will exist in concert halls and performing arts centres just as symphonies, opera companies and ballet are presented now. The prototype for this is Jazz @ Lincoln Center. In 20 years or so, every major city that has a symphony will probably have a jazz orchestra. I hate to say this, but jazz is dead in pop culture. It will live forever in institutions. We're in a transitional period now.

Anyway, you should apply for the major NYC schools. You might be eligible for scholarship. A "serious" musician will want to go to school in NYC. You learn this music on the bandstand, not in a classroom. You need to share the bandstand with mature, advanced musicians that are much better than you. This will help motivate and inspire. NYC is the best place for those opportunities.
Thank you so much for your helpful advice! I am a senior in high school and I will be attending college this fall. Within NYC, I have been accepted to The New School for Jazz and Contemporary Music and was considering attending there, but it doesn't look like it'll work out financially. This is why I have to consider other options.

I was also accepted to Queens and City College, but they're expensive as well for an out-of-state student. I was accepted to St. John's University with an amazing financial package but they don't have a music program.

Would it be better to go to St. John's and take lessons from a sax teacher in the city while experiencing NYC jazz rather than attending University of Northern Colorado with a legitimate jazz program? If I went to St. John's I don't even know how I would find a good, affordable teacher who would be willing to cope with my lack of fundamentals that most music majors would learn while in proficiency.
 

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Jazz, in the future, will be like classical music. It will exist in concert halls and performing arts centres just as symphonies, opera companies and ballet are presented now. The prototype for this is Jazz @ Lincoln Center. In 20 years or so, every major city that has a symphony will probably have a jazz orchestra. I hate to say this, but jazz is dead in pop culture. It will live forever in institutions. We're in a transitional period now.

Anyway, you should apply for the major NYC schools. You might be eligible for scholarship. A "serious" musician will want to go to school in NYC. You learn this music on the bandstand, not in a classroom. You need to share the bandstand with mature, advanced musicians that are much better than you. This will help motivate and inspire. NYC is the best place for those opportunities.
What you say is kind of frightening, Barry, because if you're right, it amounts to jazz becoming a regional music.

I was schooled in New York myself, but mostly on the stand. It makes me sad to think that players in the future will only be able to get that experience in one place - a place which is extremely oversupplied with good musicians and which is most definitely not for everybody, even if they are good musicians.

It's also sad to think jazz will only survive thru institutions. Those institutions will place heavy limitations on how much of it survives - and what kind. What isn't currently taught in schools, or isn't politically correct in one way or another, will be unplayable anywhere (outside New York anyway). It will be like DRM for live music.

Maybe this is a discussion that deserves its own thread - if only because it's a bit off topic.
 

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Northern Colorado without loans, Purchase with loans.
I plan on studying Jazz Alto Saxophone.

The sax professor at Colorado is Andrew Dahlke and Purchase has Mark Vinci, Eric Alexander, Jon Gordon, Ralph Lalama, and Steve Wilson.

Please share your opinions with the loans in mind because money is a main part of it.
soysauce;1646070...saw this before and wanted to respond- but got busy and now here we go......hope this helps.

I teach at the New School University/Jazz Dept. for close to a decade. I'm in two departments via the saxophone. Maybe I can be of assistance.
The school is top notch for the aspect of what is represented- LEARNING JAZZ. If you wish- I could turn you to a past student Meilana Gillard- a great player who grad from NS and was working with " Diva" and Charlie Persips Big Band < one of the best kept secrets in NYC by the way> and a great reader, jazz player and woodwind doubler. Osby recorded her and she is a [email protected]@. One of my other students Andrew Hadro is playing with Junior Mance on bari sax- along with Ryan Anselmi. They got a lot out of the school as well.

Look for her on Facebook- tell her I sent you. If you need more insights...Email me direct at [email protected] be glad to offer factual and personal help for you- if possible. I also could help you get a more advanced placement there as a saxophonist- I got some helpful hints.

PURCHASE, great school too. Lots of interesting stuff going on there via Todd and the crew. A past student of mine is going there, and loves it. Nathan Bellott. He was the youngest student to ever attend Liebmans Chromatic Workshop- and he did THAT in high school. I'm very proud of him- and from what Hal Galper tells me Nathan is doing just great. Nathan is on Facebook- and I'm sure would answer questions-tell him I sent you.

All in all...the economy beckons these days for all of us. You too!! :)
You need to decide what you got to do that is best for you. NYC is no gold mine to try to make a living in. You can get great education but the aspect of making ends meet can be dim. THAT SAID, If your trying and doing what you have in YOUR HEART then there you go. Ya know? Still I got guys making 40 bucks on 46 st playing a swing club for 4 sets and guys who could set the walls on fire at " Fat Cat" but the system of players vs gigs will always be loopy in NYC. But you know this is an art form- and what that entails correct?

Hope this helps and the thread has some great ideas and insights too- you got a lot of choices.

I send you caring and best wishes in your pursuit.
Be well and good fortune.
 
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