I'm wondering how the original poster gets a "Distinguished SOTW Member" when they don't play with others.....
First off, I didn't give myself the "distinguished" title nor did I ask for it. That was the admin's doing and I was flabbergasted by it at the time and told him I didn't deserve it. So if you have questions about that, go ask them about their criteria instead of beating up on me. From what I gathered SOTW is not just an exclusive club for professionals and gigging musicians but also has a lot of amateur and hobbyist members as well as students at various levels of competence, w/ older guys like me among them. I have never professed to be any more than a hobbyist, but that doesn't negate the fact that I am serious about learning to play, and work hard at it all the time. So if you want to restrict the forum to those with playing ability of a specific type, level, or pro status, then maybe you should take it up with Harri. My take however is that he didn't intend SOTW to be exclusionary, although if I am wrong than maybe I misunderstood what the ideals of this forum are.
I'd say stick with just ONE. If this is your "LIVE PLAYING TIME" that is just sad.
I can't tell whether that's a put-down or commiseration, but I certainly will think twice before asking a legitimate question about learning on the so-called teaching thread, where I assumed it would be answered by teachers with more sensitivity than to call my circumstances "sad" and my proposal "stupid", as you have and a couple of others seem to agree with. Do you hit your students on the knuckles with a ruler too?
If you think my situation is pathetic you ought to realize that not everyone got to play in band or orchestra when they were in school and thus didn't have the opportunity handed to them on a platter to play music with others and learn the ins and out of doing it. And yes, it's true I'm not on the musical level you are (yet) and I probably never will be due to my age, but why should that stop me from wanting to do the things that one has to do to actually have a chance at getting good?
Actually, rather than being sad, IMO there is something exemplary in what I am doing by working at learning to play music at this point in my life. Even though I missed or lazed out on the opportunities when I was younger, and then thought it wasn't even remotely possible later on because I assumed I had already missed the boat, I did wake up to the realization that it is
never too late if you want to do it. That's why nobody has to prod me to practice, unlike many of the students teachers on here often talk about having. Just the reverse: you have to force me to stop, because if I didn't have familial and other obligations, that is just about all I would do with my time.
Go get some play alongs, or go join a community band. Or find like minded people and start a group. But to take two teachers on just to increase your "live playing time" is stupid. A teacher is supposed to give you **** to do to make you better. You then go practice it, you come back, play it for them, discuss, fix, etc, etc. You are not there to hang and get face time with them.
If you had actually read my post you'd know that I did say I use play-alongs, but anyway, as everyone knows band in a can is not the same thing as playing with others. And of course my teacher does give me stuff to work on, which I do as diligently as I can so I can play better each week. I take those classes seriously and nowhere did I say I'm lonely or looking to hang with either of these guys for companionship. When I taught the second musician English it was a professional class for remuneration and I expected him to prepare for it, something which he didn't always do btw. He wasn't my "buddy" and I wasn't and am not looking to "hang" with him because he's a musician either, but it is because he is a musician and teaches as well that I thought of the class exchange idea given that I can't afford to pay with anything but my time for more than one class a week.
And what I meant by saying it was getting lonely mostly only playing by myself at home was not that I need friends, but that it is beginning to feel somewhat solitary given that the whole goal of this pursuit is obviously to be able to play with others. You have to start doing that sometime, somehow and somewhere, don't you? Jamie Aebersold says a number of times in his books that you shouldn't just practice all the time even if you are not a formed musician, but actually play real music rather than just scales and exercises.
And if you need more "LIVE PLAYING TIME" then go out and play live.
I was thinking of going out and busking to be able to play in public but that's not a group activity either, and in many parts of the city it's prohibited and the cops can confiscate your instrument and then charge you a fortune to reclaim it. But I might do it anyway where it is permitted just for the feedback from others and for the performance discipline it would force on me.
As to playing in a community group, it's easy for Americans to say, because you live in the land of a million Professor Harold Hills and 76 million trombones (ugh) where community & church bands, orchestras and jazz combos proliferate like weeds, even in the smallest whistlestops. If you understood just how different from that it is here in Spain and how those kinds of opportunities and networks don't exist here, you would comprehend why I even posted in the first place, cause if I still lived in America I wouldn't have needed to. (And if I had imagined the ridicule I would get by asking it, I wouldn't have either.)
In Spain, even in a major city like Barcelona, free public school band and orchestra programs have never existed, and the only music they have in school is learning to play the regional folk-tunes on plastic recorders. As a result, learning an instrument here is nowhere the widespread practice it is in the USA because the idea that it should be a publically available egalitarian activity just isn't part of the culture. If you want to play music you have to go to a conservatory or a private music school, and none of those are free and many aren't open on a casual basis because they often have a program you have to follow. Some of those schools have combos or bands, but of course those are for their students only. You gotta pay to play around here (and not just for lessons because you have to pay a hefty joinup fee just to get in) and places are limited. If you learn on your own and/or study with a private teacher like I do, you are just generally S.O.L. until you get good enough to join a band or get some kind of gig.
Of the actual "community"groups that do exist, the majority are mostly folkloric in nature with a lot of drums and a trumpet or two which get together to play in local neighborhood and religious festivals. Here are some typical examples for you to see what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOM9EDvp4v4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPE66SyiKkQ
The scarce number of real community level orchestras or jazz bands similar to what exists in America, are already composed of graduates from music schools and conservatories and not a possibility for someone at my current level. As to joining a band, the reality seems to be that most of the bands I see advertising for a sax player are looking for someone who is ready to gig, not for an inexperienced amateur like me who wants to play to improve and have fun doing it. So it's a Catch-22 situation...I need experience to play with others and I need to play with others to get the experience to do it.
So that, in sum is the reason I thought that playing under the tutelage of this other musician might give me an opportunity to learn and practice things in the extra hour with him that I either am not doing or don't have time to cover in the hour with my present teacher that we would negotiate together if he were willing. I don't know what was so far-fetched with that, and I was more concerned about the possibilities of damaged egos or conflicting ideas on technique, not that I wouldn't be able to come through and practice what was asked of me.
You aren't going to develop your own internal sense of time that by following the teacher or playing the unison parts with them all the time. Having two and comparing it to College isn't a valid comparison. It would be like taking an Algebra class and a Trig class at the same time when you really need to be focusing on Algebra.
Finally you have made a point that talks about actual musical development and the pros and cons of what I actually asked about, and alluded to in the previous paragraph, rather than dismissing me out of hand because I'm stupid and not worthy of being here.
To begin with, playing in unison is not all we do together or something we do all the time either, and naturally I'm working on my own time feel when he is comping, and at home with play-alongs and etude book CDs, with the metronome and by tapping my foot and/or counting, as well as lots of listening. I'm working on that and getting it more and more, which is why I feel able to do more actual playing with someone and since I already know this guy I naturally thought of him.
Secondly, isn't it true that in music programs it is considered legit for one to do different things on the instrument with different teachers at the same time as long as they aren't redundant? I've never been in music school so I don't know, and that's why I asked. I mean, if I'm working on sight reading and getting common jazz rhythms and language under my fingers and blowing over blues changes and perfecting my playing of tunes and etudes with the one guy, what would be wrong if with the other I practiced a couple of things like these below, which I found on a different teaching thread here, to maximize my learning each week?
Ear training. Teacher plays a short phrase in an identified scale, starting on a known first note. Student repeats it. As student gets better, they get harder. (Dave Scott)
Short licks. Write out 8-16 bar phrases or etudes based on fun and interesting jazz licks, designed to work on fingering and phrasing. Work with student to make them sound good. Way more fun than most lesson books. (Peter Apfelbaum)
Playing by ear/memory. Teacher plays a short phrase. Student figures it out and repeats it, vamps the phrase. Teacher adds another phrase, student figures it out and repeats it. Repeat. Then put the phrases together - you have learned a tune without reading. This is most fun with multiple instruments, but can work with one or two. (Anthony Michael Peterson)
Yeah, I know I could just ask my first teacher to do some of these things too, but it is only one hour a week and there's a limit to how much you can do in that short time and I can't afford to pay him for another hour even if he had another slot open for me.
So, ONE. You don't need two. And if you need more "LIVE PLAYING TIME" then go out and play live. Get some play-alongs. Or something.
Yeah. "Or Something"....that's a very precise and helpful answer to get on the "teaching" thread. It's clear that what you really meant to say was, "don't ask dumb learner questions, just go away."
