[soruyo]

Hi guys

I know this is a very difficult thing to answer, but honestly, I´m desesperated so, any help will be apprecciated.

Time ago (two years), I started to do some repairs on my instrument. I read a lot, bought some videos and books, as well as some tools. Well, the thing is, I´ve manipulated many times the key heights on my instrument (alto sax-Yamaha 855) and at this point I can´t really play in tune. I mean, I have tunning issues that I didn´t have in the past (or maybe I didn´t noticed).

I´ve set all the key heights exactly like the lists from Yamaha (some guy posted this). The sax sings beautifly. I actually don´t remeber how the keys was in the past.

I tune with middle F moving the mouthpiece in and out. So, when I think I´m done, the upper stack (from A to C#) sounds flat.

Example (this is what happens):
F - OK (this is low F)
F# - OK
G - OK
G# - 30c sharp
A - 10 c flat
Bb - 30c flat
B - 20c flat
C - 30c flat
C# - 30c flat
D - OK (a little sharp actually)
D# - OK (a little sharp too)
E - OK (sharp, but this note is kind of normal to be that way)
F - OK
F# - OK
etc.
etc.

If I push the mouthpiece in, in order to have the upper stack in tune, then the lower stack goes sharp a lot.


Well....enough!....this thing is driving me crazy. And I don´t have a tech here in town.

Thanks to everybody.

 

[Dave Dolson]

Try a different mouthpiece? DAVE

 

[DTExpress]

Leaks?

 

[jlima]

One of the reasons I never mess up with my instrument.

 

[soruyo]

Try a different mouthpiece? DAVE

I am trying with a Vandoren V16 7M refaced by Phil Tone, and a Beechler Bellite #7 refaceb by Brian Powell.

 

[soruyo]

Leaks?

Not at all.

 

[Pete Thomas]

If I push the mouthpiece in, in order to have the upper stack in tune, then the lower stack goes sharp a lot.

Could be you need to relax your embouchure. It may not be the total answer but could help.

 

[Oric Muso]

Really, all saxophones are out of tune. The player needs to do a bit of work to get it in tune. Tuning by a meter can really do your head in. I think you need to concentrate more on getting the instrument in tune with itself. You should also consider how accurate your tuner is. A lot don't have much to discern between 10 and 20 cents. You might not be as far out as you think.
Naturally the lower notes tend to be flat and the top end sharp. You need to get the mouthpiece on enough to be able to get the low notes about in tune. Work with octave and play them and listen to see if they are wide. Then check around the open C# area. I find if the mouthpiece is on enough notes liek the B come in to tune. If it isn't, no amount of lipping-up brings it in. I have a couple of playalongs that a run through which have a few Bs and allow me to check the tuning. If that is in then the rest slots in to place.
Finally, don't try and tune a cold instrument. You need it warmed up and ready to go before tackling tuning issues.

 

[Reedscraper]

The left hand upper range is normally sharp for most players. The first thing I would suspect is your reed is too soft. If not, it's your voicing (larynx placement). To play in tune, you must sing in tune. Lastly, some saxophone brands are simply not constructed to play in tune.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Throw your tuner away (or at least put it somewhere you're not tempted to use it).

The readings you're getting are way off for a Yamaha - so there's either a problem with the pads, a problem with the action height or a problem with your technique (ouch, sorry).
There's also the chance that you have a mouthpiece mismatch thing going on, but that's rare on a modern horn. It might just be that the mouthpiece doesn't suit you - or, and this is sometimes the case, the horn doesn't suit you.

Have a read of this:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/Tuner.htm

Regards,

 

[soruyo]

Really, all saxophones are out of tune. The player needs to do a bit of work to get it in tune. Tuning by a meter can really do your head in. I think you need to concentrate more on getting the instrument in tune with itself. You should also consider how accurate your tuner is. A lot don't have much to discern between 10 and 20 cents. You might not be as far out as you think.
Naturally the lower notes tend to be flat and the top end sharp. You need to get the mouthpiece on enough to be able to get the low notes about in tune. Work with octave and play them and listen to see if they are wide. Then check around the open C# area. I find if the mouthpiece is on enough notes liek the B come in to tune. If it isn't, no amount of lipping-up brings it in. I have a couple of playalongs that a run through which have a few Bs and allow me to check the tuning. If that is in then the rest slots in to place.
Finally, don't try and tune a cold instrument. You need it warmed up and ready to go before tackling tuning issues.

Thank you very much Oric!

 

[soruyo]

Throw your tuner away (or at least put it somewhere you're not tempted to use it).

The readings you're getting are way off for a Yamaha - so there's either a problem with the pads, a problem with the action height or a problem with your technique (ouch, sorry).
There's also the chance that you have a mouthpiece mismatch thing going on, but that's rare on a modern horn. It might just be that the mouthpiece doesn't suit you - or, and this is sometimes the case, the horn doesn't suit you.

Have a read of this:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/Tuner.htm

Regards,

Thank you very much Stephen!

 

[Humbardi]

Hi All:
I am starting again with sax playing after many years off and I have intonation problems with my tenor..I get the low notes from E to lower Bb a little flat and , in the second scale when going up from A to Fsharp the higher the note the sharp it is. Is it because of my lack of embouchure ? or, an intonation problem in the sax? I am going to visit a friend of mine who has a Selmer mark VI and ask him to allow me, using my mouthpiece, make some tests with a tuner to check against his sax if I get the same intonation problems . Meanwhile, can this problem ( in case is the sax...) be corrected? by a repairman ? or it is better to sell the sax and buy a new one? My budget, right now does not allow me to buy a brand sax...!!
Best wishes
Humbardi

 

[Humbardi]

Hi :
I made the test... my friend , using his mouthpiece and playing himself in my tenor sax, played in tune in both scales all the notes. Specially the higher notes were in tune. Then , using my mouthpiece in his sax ( Selmer Mark VI ) I played OUT OF TUNE in the notes of the second scale from A to FSharp..then I tried with another two mouthpieces...same result... so the problem is not in the Saxophone that I am playing but in my mouth....!!! Lack of a good embouchure...!.
Now I am looking for exercises to improve the embochoure so I can play both scales in tune...Meanwhile I am doing long tones in octaves of the same note with my tuner in front of me...but ... this need to be repeated and perfected until I get a normal in-tune sound...
Best wishes
Humbardi

 

[evan1]

Read Stephens link. Tuner establishes an eye to embochure relationship. You want an ear to embochure relationship. Ditch the tuner.

 

[kymarto]

Hi guys

I know this is a very difficult thing to answer, but honestly, I´m desesperated so, any help will be apprecciated.

Time ago (two years), I started to do some repairs on my instrument. I read a lot, bought some videos and books, as well as some tools. Well, the thing is, I´ve manipulated many times the key heights on my instrument (alto sax-Yamaha 855) and at this point I can´t really play in tune. I mean, I have tunning issues that I didn´t have in the past (or maybe I didn´t noticed).

I´ve set all the key heights exactly like the lists from Yamaha (some guy posted this). The sax sings beautifly. I actually don´t remeber how the keys was in the past.

I tune with middle F moving the mouthpiece in and out. So, when I think I´m done, the upper stack (from A to C#) sounds flat.

Example (this is what happens):
F - OK (this is low F)
F# - OK
G - OK
G# - 30c sharp
A - 10 c flat
Bb - 30c flat
B - 20c flat
C - 30c flat
C# - 30c flat
D - OK (a little sharp actually)
D# - OK (a little sharp too)
E - OK (sharp, but this note is kind of normal to be that way)
F - OK
F# - OK
etc.
etc.

If I push the mouthpiece in, in order to have the upper stack in tune, then the lower stack goes sharp a lot.

Well....enough!....this thing is driving me crazy. And I don´t have a tech here in town.

Thanks to everybody.

The break between the C# and D is telling: it means that the mpc is pulled too far off the horn, so that the horn is relatively too long when the length of the air column is short. That could be a mpc problem, but more likely it means that you are pinching your embouchure too much. That makes the horn sharp, and thus you have to pull the mpc too far off the cork to bring it into tune, but that then makes the short-tube notes flat relative to the long tube notes. It could be a mpc problem, but more likely it is your embouchure being too tight. Take the mpc off the horn and blow it: what note does it sound? Check this out before you screw around with key heights:

http://www.tsmp.org/band/saxophone/utley_buzzing_mouthpiece.html

 

[Humbardi]

Thanks for your advice. I will try to practice with some recorded audio ( for example doing octaves on a piano and recording it so I can to replicate the notes with the sax.... ),...many Thanks