Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys, i have a pretty big problem here. I've had this problem for a while, but now it's really important. With the biggest seating audition i've ever had coming up in a few weeks, i have to ensure the intonation between my R13 Bb and my E11 A clarinet is as close to perfect as possible. All this year, i'm gonna be playing with an AMAZING youth orchestra, which happens to tune to american pitch. for those of you who don't know, R13 (my Bb) tunes to american pitch, but the E11 (my A) tunes to EUROPEAN pitch! what's the best way to easily fix this problem, and ensure both these instruments are in tune with my orchestra? My conductor is a real hard-*****, and one of his pet-peeves is poor intonation. Money isn't a big issue. HELP!!!!!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
i'm using a Vandoren M13 Lyre; profile 88 and series 13. the problem is that my R13 Bb is in tune, but my E11 A is always sharp!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
i'm using a Vandoren M13 Lyre; profile 88 and series 13. the problem is that my R13 Bb is in tune, but my E11 A is always sharp!
I would suggest checking a longer barrel if your intonation is consistently sharp (and this is of course, assuming you would have to pull out beyond reason to get your A in tune.) You can check out Buffet barrels, but if you do I recommend you try as many as possible. I tried maybe 20 barrels (of Buffet Moenning, Chadash, and stock R13 barrels.) and there was only a couple Moennings and a Chadash that I really liked, the rest sounded sort of dead.

Finding a new barrel can really open up your sound, as well as fix your intonation issues.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Contributor 2010
Joined
·
1,502 Posts
Can you pull out and get down to 440? If not, get a longer barrel. Is this some kind of trick question? It seems so easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Is this some kind of trick question? It seems so easy.
ugh, no it isnt. the only way to get this instrument down to american pitch is to pull it out so much that the cork is showing, then it starts to wobble around, and even push back in while i'm playing it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Okay, I'm confused. Just what "European pitch" are you talking about. A440 has been a world "standard" for several decades at least, and American orchestras are leaning towards A442. I wasn't aware that Europeans had adopted anything outlandishly high. Here's what Wikipedia says about it:

"Despite such confusion, A = 440 Hz is the only official standard and is widely used around the world. Many orchestras in the United Kingdom adhere to this standard as concert pitch. In the United States some orchestras use A = 440 Hz, while others, such as New York Philharmonic and the Boston Symphony Orchestra, use A = 442 Hz.[9] Nearly all modern symphony orchestras in Germany and Austria and many in other countries in continental Europe (such as Russia, Sweden and Spain) tune to A = 443 Hz. A = 442 Hz is also often used as tuning frequency in Europe, especially in Denmark, France, Hungary, Italy, Norway and Switzerland."

So, I don't get it. It doesn't seem like there'd be that much challenge getting to "American pitch".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
the problem is basically such: whenever i play my A clarinet with my orchestra, it's incredibly sharp, and i have to pull out a LOT to make it even remotely in tune, which doesn't always work for a lot of the instrument's range either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
The only way I found to get my old E11 A clarinet to tune to A-440 was to get a 68mm barrel, and use tuning rings as well. That was with a Vandoren M13 Lyre 13 series Profie 88 mouthpiece. I no longer own that horn.
 

·
Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008
Joined
·
3,821 Posts
The E11 is supplied with a shorter barrel IIRC. Use your Bb barrel on your A.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW member, musician, technician &
Joined
·
5,002 Posts
Genrally, it should be possible to use the same clarinet and barrel for 440 and 442. Assuming you can play 442 and it sounds like that's definitely not a problem. If you have to open so much for 440 that the cork is showing, I guess you have to open a lot for 442 too (a bit less). I only had to open that much when I played in extremely hot and humid conditions. This caused a difference far more than 440 vs. 442.

The suggestion to use the Bb barrel is good. Try it and check. E11s often come with a 65mm (or maybe 64.5mm can't remember exactly) and the Bb barrel should be 66mm. If that doesn't help then maybe get an even longer barrel like 67mm. But first try the Bb barrel and check the lengths of the barrels so you don't accidentally get something you originally have.

Try opening the middle joint a little too and not only the barrel, if you are not already doing that.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Contributor 2010
Joined
·
1,502 Posts
Barrels are relatively cheap. You need a longer one. I was right - it is a simple problem. I don't believe for a second that you need a barrel so long that it will throw off the scale of your horn. Is that what you are telling us?

Can you go to a shop and try some barrels? Or find a member here who might have you could try or borrow. Where do you live?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW member/, Official SOTW Sister
Joined
·
19,285 Posts
Sell the Buffet and get a Selmer. ;)
If you lived closer to me I'd let you give my vintage Selmer full boehm A clarinet a test toot.
No stuffiness, and most importantly, plays in tune at A-440.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Can you go to a shop and try some barrels? Or find a member here who might have you could try or borrow. Where do you live?
I'm a short ride from the Manhattan area; i spend most of my time out here in Westchester or near Lincoln Center.

If you lived closer to me I'd let you give my vintage Selmer full boehm A clarinet a test toot.
No stuffiness, and most importantly, plays in tune at A-440.
I'm really not that into anything that isn't Buffet, but just out of curiosity, how much are you asking for it? A big problem with my current A is a lot of stuffiness, but how would i even fit a full-boehm instrument into my double case?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW member/, Official SOTW Sister
Joined
·
19,285 Posts
I'm a short ride from the Manhattan area; i spend most of my time out here in Westchester or near Lincoln Center.


I'm really not that into anything that isn't Buffet, but just out of curiosity, how much are you asking for it? A big problem with my current A is a lot of stuffiness, but how would i even fit a full-boehm instrument into my double case?
With that attitude you're missing out on a lot of extremely nice non-stuffy playing 'A' clarinets.

My Selmer 'A' is NOT for sale. Nor will it ever be until I am long dead and buried and there isn't anyone in the family who wants it.
And in that event it will only be sold as part of a matched set. I also have it's full boehm Bb counterpart.
I have a 'customized' double case to house this set.
The offer to give it a test toot was to show you how an 'A' is supposed to play. :)
 

·
Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008
Joined
·
3,821 Posts

I'm really not that into anything that isn't Buffet
, but just out of curiosity, how much are you asking for it? A big problem with my current A is a lot of stuffiness, but how would i even fit a full-boehm instrument into my double case?
That made me laugh.

Your Buffet E11 A clarinet was made by Schreiber in Germany.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
If you're in NYC, really the only place to try barrels is Weiner Music, Wright Music, or buy one from Guy Chadash. If you have a car, Wright/Weiner are pretty easy to get to. Chadash is on 41st street, in a high traffic area...there's a lot nearby I think, but I always just take a cab or public transport.

A longer barrel should do the trick, but if it's still really sharp, you may want to try a mouthpiece with either a larger chamber or lower baffle. Or just voice the pitch down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
So, did you buy a new barrel yet?

In light of your statement "I'm really not that into anything that isn't Buffet" (which made me almost spit out my coffee, btw), I find it a bit ironic that many people find themselves having to replace their standard Buffet barrels with others that get them into pitch better. Buffet makes some fine products, but the Buffet name does not magically transform clarinet-related items into perfection.

Case in point: I have a Penzel Mueller vintage A (with a custom barrel other custom alterations) that beats the pants off of several Buffets I have tried. So, be open to other possibilities and brands. Sometimes a brand name is just a name (especially, as Merlin notes, when your current Buffet is really a Schrieber stencil)
 

·
Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008
Joined
·
3,821 Posts
One of the things to keep in mind about E11 clarinets is that they're shipped with shorter barrels than standard. Take a 66mm barrel and put it on an E11 Bb, and you've got a nice playing clarinet.

The E11 Eb is a great deal - upgrade the mouthpiece and barrel, and it's a fine performer. Add a Fobes extension, and you'd have to spend about twice as much money to get the same performance.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top