[Enthusiast65]

A few observations now I'm a month into ownership of a gold plated Conn NWII, trying to sum up a number of others' comments where I've also found them to be true, and interested in seeing what to what extent other folks' experiences tally, and to hear about other positive experiences.

First off, the Horn in question is described here and compared to another rather wild Conn NWII I once had (and sold) this one tunes well/ manageably. So the start point for the observations below is from solid ground.

Throat/ chamber:

Squeezed throat with a medium or smaller chamber mouthpieces seem to tune B, Bb, C in the 3rd register better than typical large chambers.

The REALLY large chambered Conn piece that came with it also tunes well, but the chamber has to be cavernous for this to be true. A moderately straight through large chamber with not much throat (Navarro, GAIA etc.) does not seem to work in that 3rd register A thru C# become very sharp and the notes immediately below sharpen up a bit too.

Baffle:

High baffles seem to affect intonation, and having experimented with a high baffled piece that I gradually took down to now what is a little baffle only - over the course of 2 weeks -demonstrated that as the baffle came down the tuning of B, Bb, C got a lot better.

By the way, depending on the mouthpiece being used I found forked front Bb (and B) play perfectly in tune without any embouchure adjustment. That is, left hand front B with; right hand F (for Bb) and F and E (for B).

Best mouthpieces I experienced in descending order of best tuning:

Aizen SO #6 - incredible

Drake JSB ceramic #6 - good

John Thomas .65 - needs some embouchure adj

Metal soloist E (refaced C** by Aaron Drake) - needs some embouchure adj

S80 D opened up to F - - needs a bit of embouchure adj

Best mouthpieces in order of sound (for me):

Drake JSB ceramic

John Thomas

Aizen

Soloist

S80 D opened up to F

Pad heights:

I found a more even tuning with lower than expected upper stack road heights, ear tested using card/ paper first before recorking the 2 key 'feet' that lower the upper stack. I found there was a benefit to the bell keys being a bit more open than expected, and that corresponded to a nicely aligned pinkie table.

Would love to hear your experiences and disagreements! I appreciate much of this is spread around various other threads going back in time, but as it's hard to access all this information in one place, I thought I'd give it a go.

 

[Mike T]

I've got two ordinary NW II sopranos, one straight and the other curvy, as well as a Stretchy. Certainly you can play around with key heights and improve individual notes, but overall the pitch accuracy is controlled by the mouthpiece.

The Stretchy is very mouthpiece picky — really, it needs its own original mouthpiece (which, luckily I have).

The curvy plays perfectly from top to bottom with a Sopranoplanet Missing Link.

I use a MacSax HR piece on the straight NW II. This works well overall, although I'm planning on getting another piece from Sopranoplanet, so good is the Missing Link.

I'm surprised you haven't tried a Sopranoplanet mouthpiece ! My advice is simple: get in touch with Joe Giardullo at Sopranoplanet.

 

[turf3]

I haven't significant experience with Conn sopranos specifically, but in my experience with Buescher and Holton sopranos they need the mouthpiece pushed on much further than most of us are used to from alto and tenor experience. In fact I have had to cut off the shanks of both a Selmer S-80 and a Rousseau piece in order to get them on far enough without interfering with a key post.

 

[StuartSax]

I have 2 straights - burnished gold 166xxx and solid silver 184. Yes, I said solid silver. The 166 was lightly used with original pads when I got it. There was a Yani 5 mp in the case which became the one I used for 25 years.

I repadded the 166 and left the key heights rather high. The 184 came to me already well overhauled with low key heights. All I can conclude is: if you like your upper register sharp, open the upper stack. Like many modern players, I am more familiar with open keywork. The 184 feels wonderful once used to it.

I've had a few other mouthpieces like a BARI .66, Guy Hawkins 6 etc. but the one that seems to work as designed is the Buffet C stock mouthpiece that came with my S1 - big chamber/close facing and stubby. To my eye, the Buffet looks a lot like an updated Conn.

Others should have these worries, eh?

 

[Grumps]

Mine is a curved NWI, but plays fine with a very open (J) Selmer Super Session; same thing I use with my curved Buescher.

 

[chipcook]

Would love to hear your experiences and disagreements! I appreciate much of this is spread around various other threads going back in time, but as it's hard to access all this information in one place, I thought I'd give it a go.

Curved Lyon & Healy (Conn NW I), using Soprano Planet S440. Plays in tune.

 

[Enthusiast65]

I have 2 straights - burnished gold 166xxx and solid silver 184. Yes, I said solid silver. The 166 was lightly used with original pads when I got it. There was a Yani 5 mp in the case which became the one I used for 25 years.

I repadded the 166 and left the key heights rather high. The 184 came to me already well overhauled with low key heights. All I can conclude is: if you like your upper register sharp, open the upper stack. Like many modern players, I am more familiar with open keywork. The 184 feels wonderful once used to it.

I've had a few other mouthpieces like a BARI .66, Guy Hawkins 6 etc. but the one that seems to work as designed is the Buffet C stock mouthpiece that came with my S1 - big chamber/close facing and stubby. To my eye, the Buffet looks a lot like an updated Conn.

Others should have these worries, eh?

Solid silver... you are a lucky boy! Thanks for the comparative comments of pad heights too!

I also sourced an original Buffet mouthpiece that had been supplied with a S1 for my S1, but it had been worked on and opened up (to .70) by Ed Pillinger to the point that it's changed and does not work at all on the Conn. Interesting older style that combines a really squeezed throat with a large chamber. Don't think anyone produces a design like that anymore.

 

[rhysonsax]

My Conn soprano is also gold plated, has the serial number M211xxx and is fitted with the excruciating torture device of a ring for the RH thumb. What is your serial number and how do you get on with the thumb rest and the ergonomics in general ?

I found my Conn to have a lovely tone and be very flexible in tuning (hard for me to control). I've moved on to more modern sops, currently a lovely Rampone also in gold plate, but maybe I should try the Conn again.

Rhys

 

[Enthusiast65]

Mine is M209xxx and indeed has the same thumb ring, as I think they all do. It felt horrible for the first week and then I changed thumb position. The thumb now rests against the body with the left hand edge of the ring roughly in line with the cuticle of my nail. Well away from the thumb joint. It feels super comfortable now, in that I don't even give it a second thought.

To help the ergos I added a medium sized Cosmos Industrial riser to the side F key, and that makes high F through G pretty much as easy as having a front F key. I bought a set of 3 and am using just 1 for now so let me know if I can assist...

With the set up I have, principally done by Marc Jean in Quebec with a few further adjustments by me afterwards here in London the feel of the mechanism is light and, actually, delightful. It feels super quick, fluid, low notes and alt are both very easy to the extent I never worry a second about either.

Regarding tuning, I personally found a small throat and small/ medium chamber, with a modest tip opening (around 6 to 6,5) and low or no baffle to be transformative in tuning, along with a lower than average set upper stack (which if done correctly doesn't take anything away from resonance).

Yet the range of answers above from forumites here suggest there is no set formula and others seem to get on with larger chambered pieces. Depending on your horn, and there MUST be variation, false fingerings for 3rd register Bb, B, C and C# are very helpful. I mention the forked ones for the Bs, whereas right hand side keys (Bb, C in conjunction with a left hand B) will play a pretty good C and C# if the mouthpiece used makes the horn run sharp. I find all of those fingerings are easy to move around from but with the smaller throated/ chambered mouthpieces I use I really only need to worry about forked front Bb.

Let us know how you get on if you revisit the Conn!

 

[turf3]

I hate those damn thumb rings. I would replace it with the generously proportioned Music Medic thumb hook located as far up the body as it'll go.

As to key heights I find most people set the palm keys on sopranos (and to some extent altos) way too high. I reset them to where the opening is roughly proportional to that of the bigger keys, and it always improves intonation and controllability up there.

Again, I'm not playing a Conn, rather a Holton and a Buescher from about the same time frame, but I find that medium chamber mouthpieces of moderate tip opening give superior tuning results (like, no notes need favoring and all fingerings work just fine). I'm using a Selmer S-80 C* and a Rousseau. Since I am louder than most trumpets with this setup, I don't feel much of a need to go any wilder.

 

[bruce bailey]

Conn NW II with a Yamaha 4C and also a NW one curvie. Never any intonation issues.

 

[bruce bailey]

My Conn soprano is also gold plated, has the serial number M211xxx and is fitted with the excruciating torture device of a ring for the RH thumb. What is your serial number and how do you get on with the thumb rest and the ergonomics in general ?

I found my Conn to have a lovely tone and be very flexible in tuning (hard for me to control). I've moved on to more modern sops, currently a lovely Rampone also in gold plate, but maybe I should try the Conn again.

Rhys

I can remedy the Conn issues........send it to me for disposal !!!!

 

[Enthusiast65]

As to key heights I find most people set the palm keys on sopranos (and to some extent altos) way too high. I reset them to where the opening is roughly proportional to that of the bigger keys, and it always improves intonation and controllability up there.

Totally agree. Less travel too, feels better.

 

[Reverend Sax]

I have a silver NWII on which I can pretend to be Sidney Bechet. I have settled on a Meyer 6 mp, but I also like the Selmer S-80 F, and an old Riffault. The horn has a lovely sound and after playing it for hours I can finally play high C - Eb in tune but I don't like going above D. I see why Sidney used the broad vibrato.

 

[bruce bailey]

Also, Bechet probably use a mouthpiece with a .043" facing which was about it in those days. I think he died around 1959 before the mass of soprano mouthpieces we have today.

 

[rhysonsax]

Mine is M209xxx and indeed has the same thumb ring, as I think they all do. It felt horrible for the first week and then I changed thumb position. The thumb now rests against the body with the left hand edge of the ring roughly in line with the cuticle of my nail. Well away from the thumb joint. It feels super comfortable now, in that I don't even give it a second thought.

To help the ergos I added a medium sized Cosmos Industrial riser to the side F key, and that makes high F through G pretty much as easy as having a front F key. I bought a set of 3 and am using just 1 for now so let me know if I can assist...

Just so I can visualise how you are positioning your RH thumb in the ring, is it sort of aligned upwards along the body of the instrument, across it (like when using a conventional thumb hook) or at what angle between those extremes ? Maybe a picture would help me understand.

Thanks for your kind offer about the Cosmos riser - now I think of it the previous owner of the Conn had rubber risers on some of the LH palm keys. They felt quite comfortable to me.

Rhys

 

[Enthusiast65]

This is how it feels comfortable to me. Like bicycle saddles, we are probably all going to be a bit different...

 

[rhysonsax]

Thanks for those very clear pictures. I will get my Conn soprano down from the loft and give it another go with that sort of position.

Rhys