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Trying to identify this Sax

5K views 37 replies 12 participants last post by  saxophender 
#1 ·
Coming from a very musically based family, I was given my grandfathers Sax when he passed. I didn't even know he ever played the Sax as all I'd ever seen him play was the Oboe. Apparently he played it while assigned to the Army Band.
Identifying markings. Just under the bell: U.S.Q.M.C.-3 in below that: GRETCH (not Gretsch) American Made- SN: A 34922 L
It is in pretty good shape for its age. Silver plating is worn in contact areas. Does need a good polishing. I am interested in finding some history on the brand as I can only find an approximate age. Possibly from the 20's. Its use in the Military band. Basically, anything you can find concerning it's life. My research hasn't yielded much.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
#2 ·
My money is bet on this:

You have a stencil horn.

That means that the word "Gretch" was printed on the horn as part of a contract to sell horns.

That word has nothing to do with who might have manufactured the horn.

You can look on saxpics (http://www.saxpics.com/) to hunt out similar features for an ID.

Photos posted here on your thread will likely get an expert on board to help you.

You can post photos of the bell of the horn (showing split bell, left bell or right bell keys and the guards)

photos of the left pinky table, which can be a great help

and closeups of the open keys (for possible beveled tone holes), and the octave mechanism

The more photos the better, prolly.

The shape of the engraving that marks the serial number can help, too.

I suppose it is a United States Quarter Master Corps marking ...

"A" stands for alto

"L" stands for low pitch, which is a good thing.
 
#26 ·
My money is bet on this:

You have a stencil horn.

That means that the word "Gretch" was printed on the horn as part of a contract to sell horns.

That word has nothing to do with who might have manufactured the horn.

You can look on saxpics (The Vintage Saxophone Gallery :: SaxPics.com) to hunt out similar features for an ID.

Photos posted here on your thread will likely get an expert on board to help you.

You can post photos of the bell of the horn (showing split bell, left bell or right bell keys and the guards)

photos of the left pinky table, which can be a great help

and closeups of the open keys (for possible beveled tone holes), and the octave mechanism

The more photos the better, prolly.

The shape of the engraving that marks the serial number can help, too.

I suppose it is a United States Quarter Master Corps marking ...

"A" stands for alto

"L" stands for low pitch, which is a good thing.
YES! I have a silver Gretch A*****L stamped with USQMC. How can I find out more info and the year it was made?
 
#3 ·
Probably a Conn stencil horn given the listing of the serial number, A for alto above it and L for low pitch below it. Does the key guard over the low C tone hole look like a three pronged Mercedes Benz logo? If so, that would pretty much nail it as a Conn stencil.

Serial number ranges are unreliable in dating stencil horns for the most part. So if you showed us pictures of the horn, you'd get a better idea of which Conn model it was stenciled from; stencils usually being based on older models when produced.
 
#18 ·
Some Gretsch saxes were made by Couesnon but those would've had the name spelled correctly.
Soybean, Good to see you again. Hey, any chance this is part of Holton/ Lyon & Healy/ Courturier era stencils made for Gretsch. OP notes possibly 1920's and sn 34*** May fit. Fun family heirloom.

jayPdx, Brylcreem....wasn't that used to deep fry chicken?

Bruce, my wife turned 29 for the 26th time last month she still gets carded and I don't. Must be the gray hair I have left.
 
#30 · (Edited)
It looks Conn New wonder 1. interesting that it has a round Pinky G key touch.
Soldered tone holes, not rolled. No pearls on the touches, The serial number if it is Conn dates to late 1916. “A” is for alto. The L below the serial number is for a low pitch. Hard to tell from the pictures but this could be silver plate or nickle. I mention nickel due to the sparse engraving on the bell.
Some of the white pads may be original. The USQMC Is United States Quarter Master Corps. Was most likely played during World War One. Appears to be in really good condition with an original case. I can’t make out what the two mouthpieces are. The one plug goes into the end of the body to prevent the protruding octave lever from being damaged while in the case.
 
#32 ·
It looks Conn New wonder 1. interesting that it has a round Pinky G key touch.
Earlier Wonder models had them and stencil serial numbers cannot reliably be dated by comparison to those of first line branded models. Nothing's really changed from the previous page of posts. Not a valuable horn. Pretty much lamp material.
 
#34 ·
A tenor would be another story. You know I dig the older ones even if they had the metal key touches, so long as there's a front F. The alto in this instance lacks that front F. Only someone such as yourself, who can rebuild horns, could find some value in it. But even rebuilt, it would only fetch two hundred bucks or thereabout. And for most, an overhaul would be at the very least five hundred bucks. If the OP isn't a player, sinking any money into it is a bad bet. I could understand fixing it up for sentimental value, but most non-players that come here with horn questions are generally focused on value.
 
#35 ·
Would there even have been a front F on a Conn tenor old enough to have the metal key touches?

What to do with these old instruments is kind of a conundrum. In most cases you could repad/cork/felt them, do a good setup, and they'd play just fine. Probably not as slick under the fingers as a 6M or so. But there's just no demand for them. Kids in school bands are playing cheap Chinese horns that cost brand new about what something like this would cost by the time you got it playable. Adults already have saxophones, or they have the disposable income to buy something nicer. There must be tens of thousands of these around, dating back to the sax craze of the 20s; they were still being used in 1941-45 so they didn't get caught up in the WW2 scrap metal drives; they just sit there and tarnish. It seems a terrible shame to sell them for scrap metal.

It's similar to the many thousands of "Stradivarius Oklahomis" violins in attics; any strings shop sees several of these come in each year; "I found this in by grad-dad's barn, it says "Stradivarius", it must be worth a lot" and they have to tell them, no, it's a cheap factory made fiddle in poor condition, will cost more to fix than it's worth, a new Chinese instrument will play better for less money, etc., etc."
 
#37 ·
@Grumps @turf3 your comments are exactly what I sent the OP in a private conversation two days ago. So close that it looks like we copied each other’s and pasted in a message.
I added a sentence or two about it being military issue. That really doesn’t help the value.

as noted above my tenor is 500 numbers or so higher. It has pearls it has the F
Musical instrument Brass instrument Wind instrument Woodwind instrument Music

from Steve Godsons website the timeline of Conn & pearls is goofy.
Font Technology Terrestrial plant Screenshot Number
 
#38 ·
my tenor is 500 numbers or so higher. It has pearls it has the F
My tenor #327xx has metal key touches, and my #364xx has pearls. Both have front high F.

from Steve Godsons website the timeline of Conn & pearls is goofy.
It's also apparently wrong about the C melody necks. I have #s 70xxx and 75xxx, both with straight necks.
 
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